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Post by IronmanFootball on Oct 19, 2013 12:00:02 GMT -6
I attended a local game during our bye week to see our future opponent. I watched a team that I know has been on the other side of things many times of the past 5 years squeeze in as many first half points as possible. Onside kicks, going for 2, 2-minute offense up 21+ going into the half and calling timeouts and chucking it deep to get one more chance. The losing team had only 12-13 players and hadn't scored a TD since week 1 until this game.
In 2 seasons as a varsity header I've had 3 shots to do it and haven't taken the chance to run it up. As a freshman header I had 3 games in one season where my 2nd and 3rd team played the entire 2nd half, and I chose to run inside all game and back off the blitz. I definitely didn't onside kick, call timeouts, or go for it on 4th down.
So if you're one of these guys, why do you do it?
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Post by CS on Oct 19, 2013 13:28:29 GMT -6
I don't do it but that is a lack of class and that coach has lost touch with what we are supposed to be doing as coaches (developing upstanding young men)
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Post by spos21ram on Oct 19, 2013 13:51:18 GMT -6
I don't consider what you described as running up the score. No such thing as running up the score in the first half. That's good coaching if you ask me. Now if he did that in the 4th quarter that's a different story.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 19, 2013 13:53:50 GMT -6
I don't consider what you described as running up the score. No such thing as running up the score in the first half. That's good coaching if you ask me. Now if he did that in the 4th quarter that's a different story. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards Have to partially disagree here. There are some instances in which it is OBVIOUS that the game is over after the opening kick. Calling time outs, onside kicking etc when playing a team after the game has been decided (even in the first half), is pretty bush league. |
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Post by spos21ram on Oct 19, 2013 13:55:41 GMT -6
I understand but they were only up by 21. If they were up by 35-40 points in the first half then that's different. 21 points isn't that much.
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Post by coachphillip on Oct 19, 2013 14:31:46 GMT -6
I understand but they were only up by 21. If they were up by 35-40 points in the first half then that's different. 21 points isn't that much. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards Agreed. Especially by a coach who has just recently stopped getting blown out. He could possibly just have been insecure in the lead. 95% of the time, first half is fair game. I think 35 points is when you start "building depth". I've seen way too many 21 point leads come and go. |
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Post by rsmith627 on Oct 19, 2013 16:42:57 GMT -6
I have never ran up the score in a game. With that said, there is bad blood between me and my current HC and I am updating the resume. Given the chance, I will step on his throat next year.
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Post by CS on Oct 19, 2013 17:18:42 GMT -6
I have never ran up the score in a game. With that said, there is bad blood between me and my current HC and I am updating the resume. Given the chance, I will step on his throat next year. Why? Yourno hurting him any. Your hurting his kids. |
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Post by rsmith627 on Oct 19, 2013 18:46:47 GMT -6
I have never ran up the score in a game. With that said, there is bad blood between me and my current HC and I am updating the resume. Given the chance, I will step on his throat next year. Why? Yourno hurting him any. Your hurting his kids. I'm probably too big of a puss to actually do it. But, that's about the only reason I could see somebody doing it is for personal reasons. |
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Post by fantom on Oct 19, 2013 19:08:59 GMT -6
I don't consider what you described as running up the score. No such thing as running up the score in the first half. That's good coaching if you ask me. Now if he did that in the 4th quarter that's a different story. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards Have to partially disagree here. There are some instances in which it is OBVIOUS that the game is over after the opening kick. Calling time outs, onside kicking etc when playing a team after the game has been decided (even in the first half), is pretty bush league. I can't really agree when the score is only 21-0. That's only three plays. I can see wanting to get a bigger ucihion in the first half so that you'd feel more comfortable about subbing in the second half. |
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 19, 2013 20:35:01 GMT -6
I figure anything is fair game in the first half unless it gets over 50. If it's over 40 in the second half, varsity is out and if our jv scores running iso and wedge, well then, that's not my problem.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2013 22:07:20 GMT -6
Here we go again! LOL!
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Post by tango on Oct 20, 2013 6:03:06 GMT -6
35 points running clock. We get to it as fast as possible and then do everything possible to not score without telling them to fall down. 35-0at the end of the first and played the JV the rest of the game. Won 49-0 with the last two scores coming on defense.
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Post by jg78 on Oct 20, 2013 7:34:40 GMT -6
I don't see anything at all wrong with trying to score by any means possible with a 21-0 lead late in the first half. Unless it's just an absolute slaughter, the first half is fair game, in my opinion. We played a game last year where we were up 42-0 at the end of the first quarter against a first-year team. That's a game where we started subbing very early and only ended up scoring 49 pts. for the game when it could have been well over 100.
My basic approach is that I try not score in the 50s unless it just happens to be a high scoring game. A little class, common sense and empathy (most of us have been on the other side of blowouts before) can usually prevent you from running up the score unnecessarily.
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Post by IronmanFootball on Oct 20, 2013 8:10:10 GMT -6
If you're at the 10 with 6 seconds to go, why not kick the FG instead of chucking another pass? The other team was beat after the 1st quarter. They scored on two fluke TDs, not sustained drives showing promise. The winning team was also scoring at ease on 5-6 play drives without issue.
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Post by fantom on Oct 20, 2013 8:20:08 GMT -6
If you're at the 10 with 6 seconds to go, why not kick the FG instead of chucking another pass? The other team was beat after the 1st quarter. They scored on two fluke TDs, not sustained drives showing promise. The winning team was also scoring at ease on 5-6 play drives without issue. Six seconds to go in the first half with a 21-0 lead? I have no problem going for the TD and don't consider it running up the score. Did anything happen in the second half that looked like running it up? |
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Post by planck on Oct 20, 2013 8:23:22 GMT -6
Only done it once. Opposing coach blew up at the official over a call, then yelled across the field AT one of my players using some four letter words. I walked over and said it wasn't appropriate and if he had something that needed to be addressed, he should talk to me and/or the official. For the life of me, I can't figure out why the official didn't eject him, but it deteriorated from there. We put up about 70 on those guys.
I regret it now because I'm sure that it sent the wrong message. Then again, we just ran power and trap...didn't need to pass or call extra time outs. Probably just equivocation on my part, but I don't think that it was particularly egregious.
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Post by coachklee on Oct 20, 2013 8:56:51 GMT -6
Umm...we lost this year up 22-3 with 5:30 to go in the 4th. Now our guys were undisciplined and made some really dumb mistakes (roughing the passer that negated a game sealing INT, lining up in the neutral zone to take away a game sealing 1st down, not being set before the guy in motion went in motion, not jamming their top WR who was being double covered).
3 touchdowns is not enough of a lead until about less than 2 minutes are left.
Each of the programs I've been apart of that has been able to win big has had the philosophy to get to a running clocks with the 35 point lead, play the 2nd or 3rd string guys, and get to next week healthy.
Sounds to me like the coach and team in question in the OP was practicing their 2 minute offense in a real game situation. I've known two coaches that only throw after a 14 to 21 point lead to practice it for upcoming games because they weren't comfortable or lacked some confidence with their under experienced QB play. Top tier teams are constantly preparing for future opponents/situations and are focused on the whole "process of constantly improving themselves."
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Post by fantom on Oct 20, 2013 10:08:38 GMT -6
I think that this thread as a whole partly explains why coaches run up the score: A lot of us have different definitions of "running up the score".
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Post by blb on Oct 20, 2013 10:47:33 GMT -6
I feel my only obligation, once the game has been decided, is to substitute.
We will continue to run our offense so those kids get quality experience.
Onside kicks, calling time outs, running Gadget plays would be out of bounds for me.
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Post by dcchan4 on Oct 20, 2013 17:54:36 GMT -6
I'm not condoning it, but some leagues use point differential as a tie breaker.
For example I need to win my last game by 40, if we do it's a home playoff game, if not it's a away playoff game against the same team.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2013 17:57:31 GMT -6
I would kick an opposing coaches rear if I thought he stopped coaching became something he is not..
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Post by coachbowlin on Oct 20, 2013 18:14:44 GMT -6
I've been on both sides of this spectrum. The school I'm at now is on a bad stretch and have been blown out by everyone. The school used to run up the score on everyone. I personally as a coach, do not believe in running up the score. If I know the game is under control a 4-5 touchdown lead, I take every starter out if I can. If I can't, I figure out ways for the other team to have something to build on.
At my last coaching stop, we were up big on a school that just started playing football that year. They were struggling against everyone. The score was 50-0 mid-way through the 3rd quarter. I looked at the Head Coach and said we need to do something for them. Give them something to build on. So we told the players to not quit playing hard, but to let the team score. We won the game 50-6 because everytime they wouldn't make a drive and score, we would punt the ball back to them. They scored with 3 minutes left in the 4th quarter. It was a great feeling seeing the kids on the other sideline enjoying themselves instead of always having their heads down from being beat up so much.
It sucks being on both sides. Running the score up shows a lack of class by the coach. Its a classless action. And being on the blown out side, it truly humbles a person when they finally get either a win, or a close game.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2013 18:36:34 GMT -6
I totally agree with fantom above--this is one of those issues no one really has the same definition of. Also, you have to look at more than the score; you have to look at how the points were scored and see/judge if was truly unsportsmanlike. I've lost a game 84-8 before and I can honestly say they didn't "run it up", at least not in an unsportsmanlike manner. I've lost a game 42-14 before, yet the other team was very "unsportsmanlike" about it, going so far as to go no-huddle at the end trying to stick one in...and they never went no-huddle before that!
That being said, if I'm up very big in a game, I don't hesitate to put my backups in. But, as a JV coach, my "backups" may be only 5-6 kids and I have to rotate starters accordingly. Also, my backups are going to run the offense, even if that means passing the ball. The put in work during practice, so they deserve a shot to run the whole offense. I'm not going to go 4 Verts if I'm up big, but I will run short passes and work the quick game, at least a rep or two. Some would feel this is running it up as I'm passing with a lead, others wouldn't so now we're back to our differing definitions!
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Post by groundchuck on Oct 20, 2013 19:05:12 GMT -6
What about the flip side. Taking out your O but leaving in your starting D to secure the shut out? We've done that before.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2013 19:10:57 GMT -6
What about the flip side. Taking out your O but leaving in your starting D to secure the shut out? We've done that before. What benefit is their to punishing your team for playing well? and I am not picking on you Groundchuck. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2013 10:04:28 GMT -6
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Post by planck on Oct 21, 2013 10:45:39 GMT -6
Isn't it weird when mike leach is acting like the adult in the room?
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Post by jg78 on Oct 21, 2013 10:57:58 GMT -6
What about the flip side. Taking out your O but leaving in your starting D to secure the shut out? We've done that before. This is one thing that really sucks about coaching defense. We played a team a couple of weeks ago that did not get a first down on the first team defense. However, we substituted in the 4th quarter and they ended up scoring a late TD. Irritated me a little bit, but I didn't show it. I don't hesitate to substitute when we're up, but I sure do hate to see a team score when we do. Offensively, most coaches (in blow out wins) are going to get their 40-50 points and leave it at that. They don't take points off the board if the offensive subs get stuffed. |
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Post by newhope on Oct 21, 2013 11:11:58 GMT -6
I've always thought first half was pretty much fair game...as long as you kept it under 50. After that, different story. 21-0? You gotta score any way you can.
There are certainly different views of running up the score. I've beaten teams 50-6 when it could have been 100-0 and been accused of it just because we scored a lot of points early or because our twos and threes scored. We got accused of it last year just because circumstances made it look that way (kicker botched a kickoff and it hit their front line guy and we recovered and we got a bad snap on a punt and punter took off with it)...we played everybody and gave up 21 points we didn't need to---and the other coaches still wanted to fight.
I also agree with those above who said that doing it because of the other coach is not a good reason as it's the kids that suffer. I did run it up many years ago--and it was the players as well as the coaches on the other team that earned it. We were up 38-0 in the second quarter and subbed everybody...38-14 at the half. As we left the field, their players dog cussed us for everything in the book. On the opening kickoff of the second half, they emptied a gatorade cooler of ice on my returner as he went up the sidelines....it was on. Final, 75-14. Pulled them off with two minutes left....got written up in the press...AP got it and it went national....got hate mail from all over the country.
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