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Post by fantom on Jul 31, 2013 8:43:08 GMT -6
RUTS can be controlled... Kick field goals in middle downs to work on kicking game preparing for games later on when it will be the difference...keeps score down, ball is turned over either way, and they can't accuse you of anything... Play backups full go, and explain they are playing to improve their minutes when it matters...however, this isn't being measured in touchdowns, but rather "first downs" - because in the big games that matter, that will be what matters to us, so take your mind off the big play and show us you can move the chains without mistakes! They must be taught to stop living by the scoreboard... this is really important when you are behind on the scoreboard in future games, and the team needs to understand this...If you know you will pound a team beforehand, you should be setting this tone all week... This will get them focused on what will help in big games and take their mind off the beating they are dishing out... if they are still dominating, run the plays they typically don't run well in practice as backups due to weak players...this will slow things down and challenge the weaker players to grow up...your team's chain is only as strong as the weakest link and the kids need to understand this... if they do break a long run...so be it, but if are they are getting close, or you get the field position kick you want to try - send in the field goal unit...it's just like punting on second down... Develop new players on defense in different positions, so you have better depth in big games if key players go down to injury. Run man coverages, not pressure, that are more risky to your defense, but develop man skills...if they score, we have to get better. Play a tighter zone coverage that develops corner instincts and gets more kids involved in the run if we can... I disagree with kicking the FG. Why shouldn't the 3rd teamer or JV kid get the thrill of scoring a varsity TD? I think that an opposing coach is more likely to take offense at a FG than a backup scoring.
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Post by 33coach on Jul 31, 2013 8:46:20 GMT -6
RUTS can be controlled... Kick field goals in middle downs to work on kicking game preparing for games later on when it will be the difference...keeps score down, ball is turned over either way, and they can't accuse you of anything... Play backups full go, and explain they are playing to improve their minutes when it matters...however, this isn't being measured in touchdowns, but rather "first downs" - because in the big games that matter, that will be what matters to us, so take your mind off the big play and show us you can move the chains without mistakes! They must be taught to stop living by the scoreboard... this is really important when you are behind on the scoreboard in future games, and the team needs to understand this...If you know you will pound a team beforehand, you should be setting this tone all week... This will get them focused on what will help in big games and take their mind off the beating they are dishing out... if they are still dominating, run the plays they typically don't run well in practice as backups due to weak players...this will slow things down and challenge the weaker players to grow up...your team's chain is only as strong as the weakest link and the kids need to understand this... if they do break a long run...so be it, but if are they are getting close, or you get the field position kick you want to try - send in the field goal unit...it's just like punting on second down... Develop new players on defense in different positions, so you have better depth in big games if key players go down to injury. Run man coverages, not pressure, that are more risky to your defense, but develop man skills...if they score, we have to get better. Play a tighter zone coverage that develops corner instincts and gets more kids involved in the run if we can... I disagree with kicking the FG. Why shouldn't the 3rd teamer or JV kid get the thrill of scoring a varsity TD? I think that an opposing coach is more likely to take offense at a FG than a backup scoring. i think its just gotta be a judgment call
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Post by joker31 on Jul 31, 2013 11:21:53 GMT -6
As a DC, I typically pull my starters when up as well. I'm always looking for ways to get kids on the field. Whenever somebody on my team takes issue, I simply look at them and say "What's more important to you, yourself or your team? Why should you preserve a shutout at your brothers' expense?" That's usually the end of that conversation. Some say its promoting the wussifucation of American sports. I say it's trying to get reps for a kid who showed up, put in work, and isn't as athletically gifted. We do this... My question is when do you roll in your backups??? When running clock starts or even before this? I'm curious to see what others do as well?
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Post by coachphillip on Jul 31, 2013 12:03:45 GMT -6
[/quote] We do this... My question is when do you roll in your backups??? When running clock starts or even before this? I'm curious to see what others do as well?[/quote]
Before the clock most of the time. I typically let my starters play the entire first half of a blowout. I think it's just a feel thing. There have been times where I knew 21 points was more than a sufficient lead. Then there were teams where my 28 point lead seemed shaky. As soon as you feel the game is in hand, get kids PT.
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Post by dsqa on Jul 31, 2013 17:49:13 GMT -6
Understand, I'm talking about a serious blowout with FG...have done it a lot, and haven't had any issues...the other HC knew what I was doing...none of this should be personal...not sure offending the opposing HC should be my greatest concern...most HCs understand what is going on, and they have no trouble telling the difference between RUTs and doing what we can to limit scoring, but still play the game...like was suggested,
Do what you think is best
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Post by s73 on Aug 1, 2013 18:30:36 GMT -6
May be in the minority here, but at some point I think the team getting smoked also has some responsibility in recognizing the games over & subbing as well. Had situation last season where we were up big & subbed. Opponents keep 1's in & score. Then kick onside. We recover. I send in 2nd team & they go w/ D starters now. After a couple plays I brought my 1's in again for about 3 plays to "give the hint". After I pulled starters for 2nd time he subbed.
He was upset w/ me by game's end, butagain i think both sides have some responsibility in this issue. JMO
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Post by fballcoachg on Aug 1, 2013 20:06:09 GMT -6
May be in the minority here, but at some point I think the team getting smoked also has some responsibility in recognizing the games over & subbing as well. Had situation last season where we were up big & subbed. Opponents keep 1's in & score. Then kick onside. We recover. I send in 2nd team & they go w/ D starters now. After a couple plays I brought my 1's in again for about 3 plays to "give the hint". After I pulled starters for 2nd time he subbed. He was upset w/ me by game's end, butagain i think both sides have some responsibility in this issue. JMO I see what you are saying and the onside kick was crazy if the game was clearly out of hand. The only thing I can think of though is if you are beating them badly, everyone is beating them badly or it's early in the season, maybe they are trying to grasp at anything positive that they can. Something they can build on for the future. It's always a fine line but there are ways to be tactful on both sides. Ultimately you need to do what is best for your team and all of your kids, sometimes people will be offended most the time they will understand.
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Post by lions23 on Aug 1, 2013 22:40:02 GMT -6
We are a balanced team in a league that is old school. A lot of wing t influenced offenses. So when we get up big teams get really offended. We consider our screen game and quick game as part our run game. Our qb's count the box every play and all of our base runs are also tagged with screens. So if you are in a loose cover three our qb checks an out to the split end. If we are running the power read an the QB gets to the third option he is throwing the rocket as he runs toward s the force read.
Coaches from running teams have taken great offense to this. It boggles me but I understand that we play a little different. However I played on a wing T team in high school. Our qb checked is into the best look for veer or midline. Our qb in my opinion does the same thing except we check to a bubble screen or a quick out. Those are the first plays we install. They are our base but some coaches think we are throwing the ball all over the place. We won't go vertical. We feel like our split end and slots and qb's and all of their backups work just as hard as the wing t wingbacks. A wing t team wouldn't have a problem running power or counter with those guys up big. But then when our sophomores are throwing 5 yard passes and bubble screens they will get upset. I think those guys deserve to get work done and get a chance to throw and catch under the lights.
We will call the game exactly the way we did with our starters except we take out our most explosive vertical game and our first down play action which is very good to us.
We sub our skill guys and let them get some work with the o line before we sub them. We will sub out from seven first. We will leave in our secondary for a while bc teams will take some shots usually to try and get back in the game before cashing in. In a league that doesn't pass much we want our secondary to get some work. I will say that these are the times when the games really get out of hand though. My secondary works against passing team everyday while a running team doesn't work in passing nearly as much. Sometimes we start picking balls off and going to the house. Our second and third offense won't score yet teams will get upset.
I don't know what the best answer is. We have gotten smoked before too. It does not feel good. I have never taken offense unless teams were going for two up big when they have a kicker. It did happen once. Rival team was trying to make a point. Or a team onside kicks up big. It happened once but they never kicked off. Still I also coach a pressing defensive hoops team. We can drop back to half court even though we never practice that way.
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Post by Defcord on Aug 2, 2013 22:06:22 GMT -6
I have been on both ends. One of our league powerhouse had all of their starters in except their QB (their backup was also a stud) with just over 5 minutes to go and threw on us 4th down twice. They also kicked an onside kick in a game another year when they were up 35-0 right before half time and got it. We were on our 4th string QB of the year because #1 and #2 couldn't play that game and #3 went down early in that game. I didn't like it but I am a competitor so I also subscribe to the get better and you won't have to deal with it. The problem is 14-18 year old boys are a lot less mature emotionally and react in many different ways.
Last season we beat a team 74-6 and I hated every minute of it after our third score which is when I knew it was going to get ugly. It was a road game over 3 hours away. They were a smaller school than us but both of us had 2 wins going and all of our local papers picked us to lose. We thought we could beat them but that it would be close. We only had 40 guys 10-12 grade and because of the long drive we only took 30 guys. When it got out of hand we put in every last guy we could. We scored 2 TDs on long returns on special teams, we scored 3 defensive TDs, and none of our starting backs had more than 8 carries. Only 1 starter had more than one carry in the second half and it was for a TD in the first drive of the 3rd quarter. About half way through the 4th we started taking a knee (which I hated doing because I would be more offended by this)but I didn't want to score again so we did it. The other school's coach never agreed to go to a running clock and it made for a long uncomfortable second half. I had to write a report for our principal explaining how the score got so high.
Either way it sucks. Competitive games are the best situation obviously. But like others have said I love to get my subs in as much as possible and I will on either end of the stick because I think the more the young guysget in the more motivated they are moving forward in your program.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2013 9:49:59 GMT -6
Defcord, in that siutation, I'd say the other school's coach refusing to agree to a running clock puts some of the responsibility on his shoulders. I agree with you that I'd have been more offended by another team getting the ball and just taking knees for a quarter than playing football with backups, but he should have done what he could on his end to shorten that game.
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Post by wingtol on Aug 3, 2013 10:35:16 GMT -6
There is a huge difference between running it up and scoring a lot of points. Always something to remember in these situations.
I do have to say that I disagree on the kicking a fg in different situations. I view that as you trying to score and thus run it up as opposed to a 3rd string JV rb scoring a late TD because it has basically turned into a JV game at that point any ways.
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pap1723
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Post by pap1723 on Aug 7, 2013 7:09:15 GMT -6
Hopefully you can help!
We are playing a Week 1 opponent that we will beat by quite a large margin. In our state, once you have a 40 point lead in the 2nd half there is a running clock. We have a new offense this year and we have very tough Week 3, 4 and 5 matchups.
To what degree should we continue to work on our offense so that we are prepared for the rest of the season? Last year, we scored 3 touchdowns on defense against this team so we didn't have a lot of meaningful offensive reps. We struggled in Week 2 and 3 offensively and I do not know how much of an affect Week 1 had.
I would love to hear the Huey board advice! Thanks
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Post by lochness on Aug 7, 2013 7:40:04 GMT -6
Hopefully you can help! We are playing a Week 1 opponent that we will beat by quite a large margin. In our state, once you have a 40 point lead in the 2nd half there is a running clock. We have a new offense this year and we have very tough Week 3, 4 and 5 matchups. To what degree should we continue to work on our offense so that we are prepared for the rest of the season? Last year, we scored 3 touchdowns on defense against this team so we didn't have a lot of meaningful offensive reps. We struggled in Week 2 and 3 offensively and I do not know how much of an affect Week 1 had. I would love to hear the Huey board advice! Thanks I know this may not be exactly what you were looking for, but I think the best advice I could offer would be: 1. Don't assume you will win by a large margin, regardless of what you know about the opponent. 2. Don't look ahead to Week 3, 4, and 5. Focus on game planning and personnel planning for week 1. 3. Always have a general plan / philosophy you and your staff can fall back on (in ANY game) if you are blowing someone out, or if you are being blown out. If needed, implement that plan. That's how I'd approach it.
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Post by blb on Aug 7, 2013 8:41:15 GMT -6
Hopefully you can help! We are playing a Week 1 opponent that we will beat by quite a large margin. In our state, once you have a 40 point lead in the 2nd half there is a running clock. We have a new offense this year and we have very tough Week 3, 4 and 5 matchups. To what degree should we continue to work on our offense so that we are prepared for the rest of the season? Last year, we scored 3 touchdowns on defense against this team so we didn't have a lot of meaningful offensive reps. We struggled in Week 2 and 3 offensively and I do not know how much of an affect Week 1 had. I would love to hear the Huey board advice! Thanks I know this may not be exactly what you were looking for, but I think the best advice I could offer would be: 1. Don't assume you will win by a large margin, regardless of what you know about the opponent. 2. Don't look ahead to Week 3, 4, and 5. Focus on game planning and personnel planning for week 1. 3. Always have a general plan / philosophy you and your staff can fall back on (in ANY game) if you are blowing someone out, or if you are being blown out. If needed, implement that plan. That's how I'd approach it. Don't assume too much. Funny things can happen in openers, and you're breaking in a new Offense. Our only goal for this season is to be 1-0.
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pap1723
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Post by pap1723 on Aug 7, 2013 8:46:34 GMT -6
I understand what you guys are saying, and I get the coach speak of don't look past anyone, etc. That being said, I like to look at all scenarios. Obviously, if we are not up by a lot, or it turns into a game, my question is meaningless, and I have a plan for that.
My question is, if the game gets out of hand quickly, what should I do in order to still be able to practice our offense? What is too much?
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Post by coachphillip on Aug 7, 2013 8:59:45 GMT -6
As long as you're running your base plays, you should be fine. It will be a good chance to get depth with your second and third string guys early in the season. Rotate in once the game is in hand. Probably after the first series of the second half.
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Post by coachdennis on Aug 8, 2013 12:32:39 GMT -6
I forget the name of the judge who once said of obscenity that he couldn't define it, but he knew it when he saw it. :-) That's how I feel about running up the score. There are just certain things I see in the second half of blowouts where I think, "Wow, that's a #$@% move, coach."
First is leaving your stud back(s) in the game, and feeding them the rock. We see this in youth football all the time, largely because no one else gets any reps in practice except Johnny Superstar.
The second is reaching into your bag of tricks and running option pass, Statue of Liberty, etc. I hear coaches say, "We need to practice it for a big game." No, you don't. Run it in practice - pulling it off against a helpless opponent is just bully boy stuff.
The third, and probably most obvious, is the short kick. I have seen this one quite often, and again the excuse trotted out is, "We needed to practice it live". Again, bullfeathers - that's why you have practice. I saw this last year with a youth coach repeatedly running short kicks when up big, and it just made me shake my head for the kind of hammerheads that our sport attracts.
Defensively, it is sending your all-world, King Stud linebacker on repeated blitzes late in blowouts. Firstly, get that kid off the field and sub for him. Secondly, play it pure base D late in blowouts - it's what gentlemen do.
Like anyone who has been around for a while, I have been on both ends of this. If my backups score on another team running our core plays, I don't feel too badly. If one of my studs scores late, and he probably shouldn't have been in there, I do. Conversely, if we get scored on during a blowout by their backups, even through the air, that's no one's fault but ours. If they are going out of their way to stick it to us late, I'm not very happy, although I am too proud to whine about it publicly.
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pain
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Post by pain on Aug 9, 2013 7:50:31 GMT -6
We will play our back ups as much as possible when we get up. In fact, against the weakest opponents we will start and play most of our back ups. Granted we don't have a lot of depth so this means lots of playing time for the fresh-soph kids. I think this builds confidence for the kids and respect from the opponent's coaches and parents. I've never learned much from clobbering a team 70-0 or losing 70-0. You are the coach, you can control the clock, play calling, and your kids. We beat a team by 50 points last year and played only freshman and sophomores in the 4th quarter. We mixed in the 2nd & 3rd stringers in quarters 2 & 3. Our starters got the 1st quarter and that was it. We knew it would be a blowout and didn't feel guilty about our younger trying to score.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 10:31:50 GMT -6
I will never understand how one is to tell the kids to play hard, then when its convenient, you as a coach stop going hard. How one is to speak one thing, then essentially say "do as I say not as I do" and expect there to be no confusion or calling out of the coach is something I cannot wrap my head around.
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Post by shotgunfivewide55 on Aug 9, 2013 13:16:57 GMT -6
i have beaten people 81-0 and i have been been 76-0 when i was younger. No matter what you say it eventually comes down to the kids and the effect on them. some would say that that it is the other coaches job to stop the offense and if you get to pick your people, such as college and pros i can live with that but in every other level of ball it often comes down to the have and the have nots. Mis-matches occur and all the coaching in the world cannot make up the difference. I lost 76-0 and thought i got pay back when i won 81-0, it was not revenge, it was stupid and if i could go back in time i would never do that again. You build so much positive mojo by not running up the score: playing young players and getting experience for down the road,preventing injuries to your superstar so instead of rushing for 354 yards vs. girl scout troop 54, let him rush for 225 and save himself for the big game, this helps with the moral of your whole team and the parents and the community, you are not universally hated by every coach in your district, region and classification, karma is also a witch, one day it will happen to you,if that is what it takes for you ego to be big i guess you also enjoy {censored} fighting, midget tossing (small people)and helping at the local homeless shelter. However the only thing worse than some of these things is telling your kids to take a knee or run out of bounds when they are on the way to the endzone, we should do nothing that we for sure know will embarass the other coaching staff...other stupid things, no passing in the second half, not playing starters and really what is the big difference between 35 points and 70 besides 35 points....doing things like running up the score also prevents you from scheduling many teams the next time scheduling comes up. It was also summed up for me by my first wife when my qb threw 10 td passes in my game, i got home and she told me that our bed was off limits tonight and so was victory sex....lol...sleep on the couch, now we were a mediocore 1a team playing a bigger team in the 3a class...i asked here why and she humbled me with a few words while she held my sleeping new born son in her arms, she simply stated, "what if someone had just done that to your son?" as she kissed the forehead of my son......i grabbed my pillow and blanket and went downstairs to the couch....coaching is a faternity, not the wild west, i dont care if you are dead with 6 bullets or 65, you are still dead! I have lived this on both sides and if one person gains anything from this little rambling speech i hope it helps
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Post by coachdennis on Aug 12, 2013 7:29:34 GMT -6
I will never understand how one is to tell the kids to play hard, then when its convenient, you as a coach stop going hard. How one is to speak one thing, then essentially say "do as I say not as I do" and expect there to be no confusion or calling out of the coach is something I cannot wrap my head around. I hear you. I think the alternative to that is to make sure that all your backups are in, then encourage and coach the heck out of them. Like I say, I have no problem with backups playing hard and running the full playbook (within reason). If your backup RB goes off tackle and still scores, that's the other team's problem. If what you're saying is that we should never expressly tell our kids to stop playing hard or start making joke substitutions (fat kid at wide receiver, etc.) then I can support that. I guess my biggest absolute is making sure that you empty your bench. When the score gets out of reach in either direction, do the right thing and play your backups. Those kids come out to practice every night, bust their hump on your scout team, and really want to be part of something. Those kids deserve an opportunity to see some field also, and I just think it is really cold and small minded when coaches keep playing their ones right into the fourth quarter of lopsided games. If it's the second half, and you're either up by 30 or down by 30, for goodness sake let your backups have a little bit of sunshine.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 7:41:18 GMT -6
I will never understand how one is to tell the kids to play hard, then when its convenient, you as a coach stop going hard. How one is to speak one thing, then essentially say "do as I say not as I do" and expect there to be no confusion or calling out of the coach is something I cannot wrap my head around. I hear you. I think the alternative to that is to make sure that all your backups are in, then encourage and coach the heck out of them. Like I say, I have no problem with backups playing hard and running the full playbook (within reason). If your backup RB goes off tackle and still scores, that's the other team's problem. If what you're saying is that we should never expressly tell our kids to stop playing hard or start making joke substitutions (fat kid at wide receiver, etc.) then I can support that. I guess my biggest absolute is making sure that you empty your bench. When the score gets out of reach in either direction, do the right thing and play your backups. Those kids come out to practice every night, bust their hump on your scout team, and really want to be part of something. Those kids deserve an opportunity to see some field also, and I just think it is really cold and small minded when coaches keep playing their ones right into the fourth quarter of lopsided games. If it's the second half, and you're either up by 30 or down by 30, for goodness sake let your backups have a little bit of sunshine. emptying my bench has benefit for my team.especially if I can get them in against players who are better than they are. Telling my kids to not score, or to let the other team score, to fall down, to drop passes is undercutting core values I preach. for me to start calling things that I would otherwise never call, undercuts my authority. The minute the coach starts doing thing that he would never encourage his players to do in any setting, the coach is on his way out the door, because your word mean nothing anymore.
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Post by shotgunfivewide55 on Aug 12, 2013 8:46:01 GMT -6
could not agree more, most of our backups we preach that their role as preparing the starters for the game is just as vital as starting. So when they do get to play we preach to our starters how important it is to cheer and coach up the backups. As a coach it is natural, i think when I am coaching the second string i may even be harder on them than the starters, they normally have a much smaller no huddle package than the starters, usually 5 or 6 plays, but they are expected to go as fast as possible...they chance to age your players with more experience is invaluable, that way we may lose key players but we always have other kids ready to step in and play....during most games we will always play two quarterbacks and sometimes 3, everyone on of our tailbacks has to learn quarterback because we are such a qb running team, we played 5 qbs in our last scrimmage and they all did well, so dont pass as well as others but they make up for it by running and being just decent enough passer to keep the other team from loading up on the line
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