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Post by wingtol on Jun 28, 2013 18:54:17 GMT -6
Smith who went to Temple was a big name in PA coaching. Over 70 D1 kids in 10 years ( some would say he was already coaching in college with the way he "recruited" already). He was well known around the state had a few years in college and also had BCS level and NFL playing experience. So I would say he isn't the typical HS coach getting called up to the big leagues. Also looking around I found that there are roughly 16,000 high school football teams in the country. Say an average staff is 6 coaches. 96,000 coaches in HS. 8 moved to D1. My calculator couldn't come up with a percentage for that. I agree that guys move in to college at lower levels all the time, just pointing out that jumping to D1 is a long shot. Not starting an argument but I highly doubt the average is 6 coaches on staff Higher or lower? I was just throwing that out there because I know there are programs with 20 coaches and some with 4 or 5.
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Post by CS on Jun 28, 2013 19:40:22 GMT -6
Not starting an argument but I highly doubt the average is 6 coaches on staff Higher or lower? I was just throwing that out there because I know there are programs with 20 coaches and some with 4 or 5. Smaller schools probably have as little as 2. At the smaller schools in my state your lucky to have 3 coaches
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Post by Coach Huey on Jun 28, 2013 19:55:14 GMT -6
i've read and re-read the OP ... and I've even read all the replies ...
I'm still missing the point of this thread....
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Post by fantom on Jun 28, 2013 20:43:24 GMT -6
Nothing in this article contradicts anything that I've said.
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Post by 4verts on Jun 28, 2013 22:58:49 GMT -6
You asked about well paying college jobs. All the guys that Auburn hired are making well over $100k.
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Post by fantom on Jun 28, 2013 23:16:16 GMT -6
You asked about well paying college jobs. All the guys that Auburn hired are making well over $100k. Exactly what point are you trying to make? Not trying to be a wise guy but I don't really know what you're trying to say. If you're trying to prove that you can get into the high levels of college coaching, I agree under certain circumstances. Can a good HS assistant get a D1 job? Not unless he has a background in college coaching. I've asked you to find a HS assistant who got a D.1 job without either being a D.1 GA. Let me know when you find one.
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Post by 4verts on Jun 29, 2013 0:01:14 GMT -6
Again Travis Pearson. He was not a GA or Coach at the D1 level. His last job was as the DC at Colquitt County in Georgia.
Jordan Hankins. UT Martin Associate HC, LBs. Previous job was at a position coach at Riverdale HS in Murfreesboro, TN
Dewayne Alexander. Tn-Tech. Was an assistant in middle Tn for 8 years before going to 1st stint at Tn-Tech.
Curt Newsome. You probably know him. Had plenty of experience before he went to college. Both assistant and HC.
I will continue to look for more.
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Post by 4verts on Jun 29, 2013 0:22:46 GMT -6
Zohn Burden-ODU WRs if you consider prep school HS he was a position coach there
Mark Thurston-Norfolk State DL, one year of semi-pro then two years of hs position coach
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Post by Coach Huey on Jun 29, 2013 6:29:54 GMT -6
make a point real quick otherwise there is little need for the existence of this thread.
but, for the record ... when you hire someone, you have to be able to 'justify' it to the powers that be. at D1 that is often big money boosters. so, it is much easier to 'justify' hiring coach schmoe from division iii wesuck college than it is coach schmoe from some high school in tennessee.... regardless of when he had the 'experience' or what his role was while there, it's on his resume at the college level so easier to at least say "look, this guy has experience in college so, yes, big money booster I do think he's as good a hire as the 2 guys from the sec staffs that applied"
likewise, it is easier to 'justify' the hire if there is some kind of connection between the new hire and the hc or someone on staff. "you see big money booster, i've known coach schmoe for years. the guy can coach, great with kids, he'll do good job recruiting & coaching for us."
of course, the coach from top notch HS with good D1 talent has a chance - he's a pipeline to the area, the school, to the players. he is seen as a way connect with coaches (let's build a relationship in that area with the hs coaches - this guy can be the bridge) or he can get some of the talent from that town he was coaching in (they've got some guys coming up, too, let's get early jump on them)
there are lots of reasons guys get hired in college.... although, i'm still waiting for you to make a point about it.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 29, 2013 8:49:35 GMT -6
4verts I understand what you are saying, but I am not sure how bringing 4 or 5 people who took non D1a jobs is a supportive response to "it happens more often than you think" when the discussion was about D1A jobs. Regardless, I am not sure how one classifies "more often than you think". If we are just using anecdotal evidence here, in my district there are 8 high schools with football teams. Each staff has 7-8 coaches. None of them have gone on to coach college ball the last 5 years (its longer than that, but I am just making a point) So.. that's 0 out of 64. 0%. You have to keep in mind as well, LOTS and LOTS of HS coaches do NOT WANT (or CAN'T) take college jobs, D1aa or lower.
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Post by fantom on Jun 29, 2013 9:25:20 GMT -6
This is my last word on the subject.
My old boss ran a highly successful HS program. In 25 year at our old school he had one losing season-his first after taking over possibly the worst program in Virginia (Curt Newsome was his first DC before Curt took over at Kecoughtan). He won five state championships and produced numerous D.1 recruits.
He's now at Old Dominion. Before he was able to get a job at ODU, though, he had to take a poverty-level job at a D3 school. Only after he proved at a low level school that he could handle recruiting and college level coaching was he able to move up to a D1 job.
It'd be nice to think that a talented, dedicated HS assistant could go directly into a high-paying D.1 job. That isn't true, though. If a young assistant coach aspires to becoming a D.1 college coach he's best served by leaving his comfort zone either by working as a GA or as a lower-level college coach.
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Post by td4tc on Jun 29, 2013 9:29:22 GMT -6
interesting to note that just because someone coaches at a higher level doesn't translate into them knowing any more or being better coaches and yet parents harp on this in hockey and football..evidence on this board of some really bright guys that may not want to ever "move up" to college coaching for whatever reason but are certainly qualified to do so...having seen this develop i would throw out that it might be easier for an excellent HS coach to move up than it is for a Pro coach to "move down" in some ways....the HS coach is more used to dealing with kids and "educational issues" and more apt to get the best out of them whereas the Pro coaches are used to just bringing in another guy instead of having to coach up the guys they have
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Post by Coach Huey on Jun 29, 2013 9:31:15 GMT -6
Higher or lower? I was just throwing that out there because I know there are programs with 20 coaches and some with 4 or 5. Smaller schools probably have as little as 2. At the smaller schools in my state your lucky to have 3 coaches look just west of where you are CS ... 6 would probably be too low an average. this is a big country and football (and the staff size) is vastly different all across it. regardless, the point he was trying to make that 8-10 a year going D1 is such a minute percentage when you take into account how many HS coaches there are.
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Post by fantom on Jun 29, 2013 9:34:24 GMT -6
interesting to note that just because someone coaches at a higher level doesn't translate into them knowing any more or being better coaches and yet parents harp on this in hockey and football..evidence on this board of some really bright guys that may not want to ever "move up" to college coaching for whatever reason but are certainly qualified to do so...having seen this develop i would throw out that it might be easier for an excellent HS coach to move up than it is for a Pro coach to "move down" in some ways....the HS coach is more used to dealing with kids and "educational issues" and more apt to get the best out of them whereas the Pro coaches are used to just bringing in another guy instead of having to coach up the guys they have The question isn't whether a HS coach can do the job as a D.1 college coach. Of course there are a lot of them who can. The question is whether he can get hired.
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Post by 4verts on Jun 29, 2013 10:55:56 GMT -6
The reason I gave names is because I was continually asked for proof. Even to the extent of "Let me know when you find one". Then it again it was try and refute one, but ignore the others. As for 1AA jobs, the poster asked me to find someone with 1A or 1AA.
Truth is it is tough to get these jobs. A quality HS assistant doesn't go to be a position coach at a major D1 because he doesn't have enough experience for the job. Not saying he couldn't coach the heck out of that position, but he has never recruited.
Huey if you want to delete the thread go for it. Just a difference of opinion at this point.
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Post by spos21ram on Jun 29, 2013 10:59:29 GMT -6
The reason I gave names is because I was continually asked for proof. Even to the extent of "Let me know when you find one". Then it again it was try and refute one, but ignore the others. As for 1AA jobs, the poster asked me to find someone with 1A or 1AA. Truth is it is tough to get these jobs. A quality HS assistant doesn't go to be a position coach at a major D1 because he doesn't have enough experience for the job. Not saying he couldn't coach the heck out of that position, but he has never recruited. Huey if you want to delete the thread go for it. Just a difference of opinion at this point. I think your point is the same as everyone else's, which is it's almost impossible to go from a high school assistant with no college coaching experience to coaching at the d1 level. It can happen but very very unlikely. If We are naming only a handful of coaches who have made the jump then that is a low enough number to say it's virtually impossible. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards
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Post by Coach Huey on Jun 29, 2013 11:00:23 GMT -6
if you want to delete the thread go for it. Just a difference of opinion at this point. opinion on what? we have new thread with a link to a story (fwiw, i'm not a big fan of posts that just link a story with little to no discussion about the story, but i digress). you took no stance, no opinion, no discussion starter like "i think it is relatively easy to go from a HS coach to a larger college coach because about a dozen coaches I know have done it." where is the discussion on "steps one can take" or "what criteria do you think college HC's look for when hiring assistants" or "if I wanted to go from a HS job to an FCS job what steps could I take to help the process?" no, you just started dropping facts in, what appears to be, an attempt to argue some mystic point.
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Post by rhscoachbh on Jun 29, 2013 19:52:18 GMT -6
We had a coach from our staff, with no prior college coaching experience and played ball at the D3 level, get hired on by USC as an offensive assistant this year.
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