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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2013 16:54:41 GMT -6
If you have done your job then you may want to look at this from another angle. Many HCs keep some of their most experienced coaches at the JV level to make sure the younger kids are being coached well. They'll bring the younger guys in and give them the varsity spot because a) they can sit on them and make sure things are getting done because they're not off with the varsity and b) it's harder for an inexperienced guy to screw up a kid that's been coached at the JV level than it is to fix the f- up habits a bad JV coach implants in kids. This is what I was referring to when I said "typical HC reply" above in the thread. Again, no sarcasm or disrespect, and I completely understand the train of thought, but just from reading the numerous posts on the forum CB, you have to see how this can be viewed as BS move from the point of view of the assistant coach in those situations where there are completely separate staffs. One could take this practice to the next step and say "Well HC, since the JV IS SOOOOO important, why aren't YOU here. Why aren't the reporters here on _____ nights instead of Friday? CB, just looking through the tons of posts regarding "which job should I take..." how often do you see the "OH YEAH, Take the JV job, because that is the more important one?" I am pretty sure almost all of the replies in those threads state that the "varsity position coach" > JV coordinator. So if "we" as an aggregate of coaches on a web board would think that a varsity spot holds more value when choosing job opportunities, couldn't it be viewed as a BS move to "hold back" a quality coach at the JV level because it benefits "the program" (read: the head coach) ?? Doesn't that essentially leave him with confronting the HC?
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Post by IronmanFootball on Jun 17, 2013 17:07:07 GMT -6
As a HC, I would make sure I had a really solid guy at my lower level/s that I can trust to buy in. I can keep an eye on the new guys up at varsity but a worker with honor is hard to find. I was the "freshman" guy for 5 years. I enjoyed it bc I gt to teach cherries the basics and have more autonomy. Your time will come but take it as a complimemt.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2013 17:12:08 GMT -6
As a HC, I would make sure I had a really solid guy at my lower level/s that I can trust to buy in. I can keep an eye on the new guys up at varsity but a worker with honor is hard to find. I was the "freshman" guy for 5 years. I enjoyed it bc I gt to teach cherries the basics and have more autonomy. Your time will come but take it as a complimemt. what if the hard worker wants to move up though?
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Post by coach2013 on Jun 17, 2013 17:13:50 GMT -6
There is so much ego in this business. Without a doubt, if a coach is driven and wants to "move up" the ladder, hes got to get out of JV, Frosh ball as soon as he can. You do this by being GREAT there but also by making it clear that you have goals and want to be on varsity. Deliberately holding a guy down is bs. I agree with that, hes got every ability to go coach elsewhere at the level he sees himself at though, lets not forget that. There are always conversations before guys are placed. I have put a veteran coach on Jr High before just to make sure there was some good coaching down there since I dont want to lose games and players before I even get to know the kids. If the guy wants to help the program rather than just help himself, hes going to do whatever job hes asked to do with both feet in.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 17, 2013 18:17:50 GMT -6
This is what I was referring to when I said "typical HC reply" above in the thread. Again, no sarcasm or disrespect, and I completely understand the train of thought, but just from reading the numerous posts on the forum CB, you have to see how this can be viewed as BS move from the point of view of the assistant coach in those situations where there are completely separate staffs. One could take this practice to the next step and say "Well HC, since the JV IS SOOOOO important, why aren't YOU here. Why aren't the reporters here on _____ nights instead of Friday? CB, just looking through the tons of posts regarding "which job should I take..." how often do you see the "OH YEAH, Take the JV job, because that is the more important one?" I am pretty sure almost all of the replies in those threads state that the "varsity position coach" > JV coordinator. So if "we" as an aggregate of coaches on a web board would think that a varsity spot holds more value when choosing job opportunities, couldn't it be viewed as a BS move to "hold back" a quality coach at the JV level because it benefits "the program" (read: the head coach) ?? Doesn't that essentially leave him with confronting the HC? Confront may be a strong word, but yes if he wants to be a varsity coach as coach2013 points out, he needs to communicate that to the header.
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Post by IronmanFootball on Jun 17, 2013 18:39:05 GMT -6
If you want to move up, go talk to your HC and explain that. The HC might think you're happy as could be. If he says no, it might be time to move on. But all I'm saying is don't take it as an insult. He probably values you enough to give you more autonomy down in the JVs.
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Post by coachcb on Jun 17, 2013 19:52:29 GMT -6
If you have done your job then you may want to look at this from another angle. Many HCs keep some of their most experienced coaches at the JV level to make sure the younger kids are being coached well. They'll bring the younger guys in and give them the varsity spot because a) they can sit on them and make sure things are getting done because they're not off with the varsity and b) it's harder for an inexperienced guy to screw up a kid that's been coached at the JV level than it is to fix the f- up habits a bad JV coach implants in kids. This is what I was referring to when I said "typical HC reply" above in the thread. Again, no sarcasm or disrespect, and I completely understand the train of thought, but just from reading the numerous posts on the forum CB, you have to see how this can be viewed as BS move from the point of view of the assistant coach in those situations where there are completely separate staffs. One could take this practice to the next step and say "Well HC, since the JV IS SOOOOO important, why aren't YOU here. Why aren't the reporters here on _____ nights instead of Friday? CB, just looking through the tons of posts regarding "which job should I take..." how often do you see the "OH YEAH, Take the JV job, because that is the more important one?" I am pretty sure almost all of the replies in those threads state that the "varsity position coach" > JV coordinator. So if "we" as an aggregate of coaches on a web board would think that a varsity spot holds more value when choosing job opportunities, couldn't it be viewed as a BS move to "hold back" a quality coach at the JV level because it benefits "the program" (read: the head coach) ?? No, I understand completely. And, yes, I do see you point of view of holding good coaches back. I can really appreciate all angles as I've been an HC, a varsity position coach and a lower level coach/coordinator. I s'pose it's really tough to say given that each staff is so different. I've worked in staffs where the varsity crew was very experienced while the lower level guys were nothing more than babysitters. I also worked on one staff where the froshmore/JV staff had more combined experience than the varsity crew. I've seen a situation where a younger, inexperienced but intelligent coach was promoted to a coordinator job, above guys who had been around a lot longer. And, I've also been in the OPs shoes. A lower level coordinator position was given to a first year coach and the rest of us were s'posed to eat it.
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Post by fantom on Jun 17, 2013 23:52:48 GMT -6
This is what I was referring to when I said "typical HC reply" above in the thread. Again, no sarcasm or disrespect, and I completely understand the train of thought, but just from reading the numerous posts on the forum CB, you have to see how this can be viewed as BS move from the point of view of the assistant coach in those situations where there are completely separate staffs. One could take this practice to the next step and say "Well HC, since the JV IS SOOOOO important, why aren't YOU here. Why aren't the reporters here on _____ nights instead of Friday? CB, just looking through the tons of posts regarding "which job should I take..." how often do you see the "OH YEAH, Take the JV job, because that is the more important one?" I am pretty sure almost all of the replies in those threads state that the "varsity position coach" > JV coordinator. So if "we" as an aggregate of coaches on a web board would think that a varsity spot holds more value when choosing job opportunities, couldn't it be viewed as a BS move to "hold back" a quality coach at the JV level because it benefits "the program" (read: the head coach) ?? Doesn't that essentially leave him with confronting the HC? It doesn't have to be a confrontation. In fact it shouldn't be a confrontation. It should be a conversation.
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Post by coach2013 on Jun 18, 2013 2:53:29 GMT -6
This is all about relationships. Wanting to move up, feeling that you should move up- doesnt mean squat if you havent built the right relationship to make that happen.
I am, at times, a very frustrated head coach. I find it extremely difficult to find assistant coaches who have the right schedule, work ethic, availabiity, motivation, experience, character, agenda and intentions. There are plenty of guys out there who feel they should be given a title. They dont necessarily want to earn it, they just want it. "I should be the DC, but I cant work on Saturdays because I umpire softball games."
Its tough to find good help. When you find good help, that help gets hired away as a HC or goes to coach college ball. Its rare to find good help that is content HELPING.
More than likely, if you have built the relationship and established trust, youll be kept happy.
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Post by theb2prodigy on Jun 18, 2013 6:19:19 GMT -6
Listening to the post that say there’s nothing wrong w/ the situation is laughable. OP, I would be pissed too and not just b/c I wasn't moved up but b/c my HC doesn't say a word to me and know my career goals. This falls solely on the HC for doing a piss poor job communicating. Don't give me the BS that HC can't read minds and know that the OP wants to move up. The biggest key to successful leader is communicating and building the relationship w/ his subordinates. You ought to know as much as possible about the people that work under you and have an open line of communication. That’s about being a human being and treating people the right way. Treating them the right away is not telling them what they want to hear but being truthful. If your Asst coaches don't like your vision or direction then they can kick rocks but in this instance you should have known what the OP's goals were and gave him the decency to explain your decision. He doesn't have to like it but at least knows where he stands.
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Post by CoachCP on Jun 18, 2013 6:45:50 GMT -6
Also, I have issue w/ people saying that playing shouldn't matter. I need that explained to me. Besides a handful of successful guys, one which i played for; there are not alot that hanven't played the game. You don't have to be a superstar but I do think it helps a whole lot to have been around the game. Not all ex players would be good coaches but you have to take the guys palying expereience into consideration. If this is referring to my post for college coaches, I never said playing didn't matter. I think level might not be as big of a factor. But when I see coaches get good coaching jobs just b/c they played in college, that's BS. I've seen it work once, and fail 4 or 5 times. I played HS ball and coached through college. I've gone above and beyond to teach coaches through my blog (best way to learn is to teach). So I've been basically coaching since 2005. So if I was at a program right now and someone fresh out of college got promoted over me, I would have a talk with the HC. Playing in college does not mean you're a good coach. I've watched too many college guys get frustrated and lose their players b/c they didn't perform at a college level.
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Post by theb2prodigy on Jun 18, 2013 7:00:15 GMT -6
CP, I was not just referring to your post as I've read that on a couple different sites and was just giving the OP a reason why that could have happened. Also, you are right that it doesn't work out a lot of times but you can't discount a guys knowledge on the field just b/c he hasn't been on the sidleines. You gain experience different ways and playing should be one of the factors. I'm sure if I didn't play I would think differently, this is just my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2013 10:04:47 GMT -6
Doesn't that essentially leave him with confronting the HC? It doesn't have to be a confrontation. In fact it shouldn't be a confrontation. It should be a conversation. wasn't the conversation suppose to happen before he screwed pooch so the speak.
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Post by fantom on Jun 18, 2013 10:08:13 GMT -6
It doesn't have to be a confrontation. In fact it shouldn't be a confrontation. It should be a conversation. wasn't the conversation suppose to happen when screwed pooch so the pooch. Dude, are you typing this stuff like this or is this an autocorrect thing?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2013 10:11:36 GMT -6
wasn't the conversation suppose to happen when screwed pooch so the pooch. Dude, are you typing this stuff like this or is this an autocorrect thing? I was in the middle of typing then I had a student.....
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Post by fantom on Jun 18, 2013 10:22:10 GMT -6
Dude, are you typing this stuff like this or is this an autocorrect thing? I was in the middle of typing then I had a student..... Figured it was something like that.
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zsilver
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Post by zsilver on Jun 18, 2013 20:29:06 GMT -6
As an HC, I obviously want my best coaches at var coordinators, then var OL (OL maybe sometimes more so than a coordinator), then jv HC, then frosh HC. That said, if either of those coaches expressed a desire to move up, I'd do what I could to make that happen because they're one of my best 5 coaches and I want them in the program. Even the "teammiest" of team players will get fed up eventually if they keep getting passed up because "the HC doesnt want to have to worry about the JV program". Had this happen last season. JV HC had a desire to move up, we had an opening as a var WR coach, and he got it, because I was sure as heck not going to lose one of my 5 best coaches if I didn't have to. Yes, i then had to find a JV coach, which was stressful, but its better than having one of my best coaches leave the program altogether (not that he threatened, but I wouldn't blame him if he did, because he's that good). But the Promotion was an easy decision to make, because he made his ambitions known AND HE WAS BY FAR THE BEST MAN FOR THE JOB. My hiring philosophy is to fill those five spots as a priority, but to retain great coaches at whatever cost because they're hard to find. The fact is that if a quality coach happens to be younger, they're going to want to advance, and it's that ambition in part that makes them a quality coach. If you want to keep them around, it might require a move varsity if that's what they want (if theres an opening) If it won't work for your program, you'll have to understand when they leave for a better offer. Either way, OP, communicate, do your job, put the program first. If that's not enough, apply and seek that opportunity elsewhere.
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Post by Chris Clement on Jun 19, 2013 21:31:12 GMT -6
I know it seems much sexier to be on the "varsity" staff, but I also know I developed a lot more as a coach when I was with younger kids because you have to be on your game so much more. I also developed a whole set of important skills as a frosh coordinator and youth HC that I didn't even think about when I was a varsity position coach.
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Post by veerman on Jun 19, 2013 22:19:03 GMT -6
If the head coach knew you were intersted in moving up to varsity, then yes he is in the wrong. I agree with the post about he is not running a major company with 100's of workers. Most of us have 4-5 assistants if we are lucky, so if I can't make time for them to sit down and explain why someone is getting promoted over someone them I have too much on my plate. If we have two kids battling for the same job we owe it to the players to bring them in and explain why we are going the route we are. To the coach complaining about his different assistants, have you sat them down and talked to them? If someone is doing things I don't like we will sit down and discuss what needs to be done. Would rather only have 2 assistants that did what I wanted than 5 that did not.
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Post by knightfan64 on Jun 20, 2013 8:46:50 GMT -6
Quick Update we actually worked things out with our staff and the new fella will be helping both JV and Varsity. I enjoy doing the Defensive Coordinator duties in which I have a bit more say than a position coach. I love the new guy after a week though, and to answer the college playing question we both played ball in college our freshmen years but that was it. The young guy has his nose in the playbook learning the stuff and I am looking forward to working with him, our DC and HC talked to me and were both under the impression that I enjoyed the coordinator duties so much they didn't wanna take that away from me. So I am excited for the 2013 season.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2013 9:26:33 GMT -6
Quick Update we actually worked things out with our staff and the new fella will be helping both JV and Varsity. I enjoy doing the Defensive Coordinator duties in which I have a bit more say than a position coach. I love the new guy after a week though, and to answer the college playing question we both played ball in college our freshmen years but that was it. The young guy has his nose in the playbook learning the stuff and I am looking forward to working with him, our DC and HC talked to me and were both under the impression that I enjoyed the coordinator duties so much they didn't wanna take that away from me. So I am excited for the 2013 season. communication does wonders.
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coachmitts
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Post by coachmitts on Jun 22, 2013 19:10:19 GMT -6
A buddy of mine who is on the same staff is having this same kind of problem.
He has been with the program for the past four years. His first year was volunteer. His second year, he was my assistant on the Freshman staff (I was the HC), last year he was the Frosh OC and did wonders with the team. They scored a bunch and had a great record. With our staff thinning out a bit this year, he was hoping to move up to Varsity as some type of assistant. However, he is again going to be the OC of the Frosh team because the new HC is going to be the DC because he cant be trusted to run the offense.
The HC has great confidence in my buddy and that is why he is staying down at the freshman level to ensure they get the same teachings they varsity get. He will still be at the games every friday night, not just in the capacity he wanted. But I know he will be soon enough. Dude is a great coach.
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Post by s73 on Jun 26, 2013 7:06:08 GMT -6
I think the Op's situation is the epitome of poor communication by the HC.
As a HC, IMO their is no excuse for a lack of communication. I think it's the job of the HFC to find the best positions for their assistants, and while we don't HAVE to explain to them why they are in the positions we assigned them, if you want them to be effective in those positions you have to develop mutual respect.
I hate "paycheck coaches" but I believe that is exactly what I will get if I treat my coaches as just a guy who earns a check.
On the other hand, if I communicate my thought processes, not b/c I have to (I am still the boss) but b/c I want to, then I believe that creates some loyalty that serves me well when I have to make an unpopular decision from time to time.
On the other hand, the HC may be unaware you want to move up. If this communication has not occurred, I would suggest you speak w/ him personally. He can't fix the things he's unaware of. He deserves the chance to explain himself. I know for me, I would rather know where I stand whether it be good, bad or otherwise, than just speculating and not knowing for sure. If you need to change something, there's only 1 way to find out. Who knows, he may say he wants you their b/c he knows that level is in good hands.
I have jumped to many a conclusion in my day only to find out I was wrong down the road and looked like a complete jacka$$.
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