coachmitts
Sophomore Member
Always compete
Posts: 186
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Post by coachmitts on Jan 20, 2013 13:52:05 GMT -6
As a young coach I am reading as much as I can to become a better coach. I read, watch, talk football as much as my schedule will allow. I am starting to get to that point where my Hc is coming to me to find info on different wrinkles because he knows how much I work in the offseason. Through out my learning i am realizing the pros and cons of different systems. My question is, how did you figure out what you wanted to run? With so many options how do you narrow it down to fit your style?
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Post by 42falcon on Jan 20, 2013 14:50:47 GMT -6
The kids we get dictate what we can do / how we can do things.
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Post by jgordon1 on Jan 20, 2013 15:24:49 GMT -6
I just learned alot from others and just took what I liked..as I coached it and taught it I was able to use my experiences to adjust it as I saw fit
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Post by pirates2012 on Jan 20, 2013 15:25:08 GMT -6
As a young coach I am reading as much as I can to become a better coach. I read, watch, talk football as much as my schedule will allow. I am starting to get to that point where my Hc is coming to me to find info on different wrinkles because he knows how much I work in the off season. Through out my learning i am realizing the pros and cons of different systems. My question is, how did you figure out what you wanted to run? With so many options how do you narrow it down to fit your style? Find the best way to get your best players the ball on offense. But most importantly, coach what you know. if you've been around a system try to use that to the best of your abilities with your team. I don't think you can coach what you don't know
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Post by coachjm on Jan 20, 2013 15:31:32 GMT -6
Your system is a product of your experiences, your mentors, your successes, and your failures. ultimately in time and through commitment to base philosophies you develop a systemic approach that has answers for all the challenges that are thrown in front of you. When you have this it is tough to change your philosophy because it is a process of starting all over. For me, my father was a long time wing t coach, I played in Power off tackle based systems in HS and College, and my first assistant coaching job we ran a ton of jet sweep out of a wing t system. Not to mention I have 3 really strong mentors that have supported me throughout my career in turn our system has a small fingerprint of each of these experiences. Defensively it is the same for us although the experiences are much less varied.
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Post by CS on Jan 20, 2013 15:39:08 GMT -6
I just learned alot from others and just took what I liked..as I coached it and taught it I was able to use my experiences to adjust it as I saw fit I agree with this. Also you should steal from people who are smarter than you ;D
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Post by rsmith627 on Jan 20, 2013 15:47:40 GMT -6
Just has to do with the kids we have as many echoed. I think your overall philosophy won't change, but how you do it will. Philosophically, I am a spread coach. We do not currently have the personnel to throw the ball 30+ times a game, nor do we have the line to come out and run it down your throat. Look for us to run a ton of option, as that fits our current team. The year or 2 after that, maybe we don't run any option. Just depends on the crop we have.
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Post by btex0127 on Jan 20, 2013 16:00:45 GMT -6
I coached for a guy who had coached on the old Texas A&M staff. We took their defensive stuff and I Stuff. Then later I had the chance to meet with Coach Briles while he was at Texas Tech. He stepped me through the passing scheme he used at Stephenville Texas. I combined the two. Using same terminology. Could be spread or I based upon what we have.
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Post by lochness on Jan 20, 2013 16:45:54 GMT -6
The system I run now has evolved over decades of experience and trial-and-error.
It's actually a pretty interesting story.
In HS, I ran in a multiple offense, with a very logical and systematic terminology. It was desigend by our legendary OL coach, who was an Engineer during his day job...which explains the precision that the system was designed with. It was awesome, because our coaches could adjust things without it being confusing to us as players and it was a lot of fun to play in.
So, when I started coaching, I landed first in a double TE wishbone system (3 years) and then a Wing-T system (1 year). After that, I returned to coach at my old HS, and my former HC wanted me to bring some of the things I learned from working in other systems with me. So, I had the pleasure of spending time in staff meetings with a lot of my former coaches, and translating some things into my old "home" system. So, that was really interesting!
After doing that for 3 years, my old HC retired and I went 1 year under a pure Walshian West Coast system. Even though I HATED that system, there were some great philosophical and play design things that came out of it, so I learned everything I could. Anyway, that HC only lasted a year (teaching contract not renewed), so the next guy was also a former staff member, and he handed me the keys to the O. So, once again, I fell back to the system I knew best, but incorporated some of the stuff from the West Coast philosophy, and thus we evolved even further.
As the years went on...we found ways to continue to evolve it. If we had a multitude of receivers, we'd find formational tags to deploy multiple receivers in multiple sets. I took the system to another school 5 years ago, and that first year in, the HC's only request of me was to incorporate option into our scheme. So, now yet again we had some evolution, this time toward some option stuff.
Another big thing that evolved it over the years was finding better ways to teach our blocking system. We evolved it based on the skills of our kids and, believe it or not, the skills of our OL coaches.
The other thing that comes into play is adding coaches to the staff who have coached in very different systems. They often have a lot of fasinating things to add that, if they make sense, really can become an organic and important part of how your offense develops.
So, there's a lot of learning, evolving, and experience that happen over time if you stick with something mainly through your career. It's actually pretty interesting to think about how much we've evolved and changed through the course of a career!
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Post by carookie on Jan 20, 2013 21:10:54 GMT -6
Without being too wordy Id say it was about 50% things I learned from others; 50% me sitting around and contemplating football rules, human physiology, and the thought process of teenage boys.
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Post by Chris Clement on Jan 20, 2013 22:34:08 GMT -6
Without being too wordy Id say it was about 50% things I learned from others; 50% me sitting around and contemplating football rules, human physiology, and the thought process of teenage boys. Your playbook has boobs?
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Post by carookie on Jan 20, 2013 22:57:22 GMT -6
Without being too wordy Id say it was about 50% things I learned from others; 50% me sitting around and contemplating football rules, human physiology, and the thought process of teenage boys. Your playbook has boobs? oops meant kinesiology
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Post by oguru on Jan 20, 2013 23:06:44 GMT -6
For me it has developed from the mentors who I have learned the game of football from. With that it adjusts with the talent we have and evolves with the visits to the people who have mentored me. As one of them says if you don't evolve you'll get caught. Meaning you need to continue to evolve every year before your opponents catch on to what your doing.
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Post by groundchuck on Jan 21, 2013 4:23:14 GMT -6
For me it developed through taking ideas from a system I worked in that was very successful for a school I assisted it.
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Post by irishdog on Jan 21, 2013 8:30:11 GMT -6
I've had the good fortune of working in a number of various systems throughout my career (40 yrs.). I've taken the best parts of each and blended them into my own, although I am still learning new ways to do things I will tweak things every year to make my own system easily taught, and easily learned. But first you have to have a philosophy of football you're comfortable with before embarking upon the development of your own system.
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Post by blb on Jan 21, 2013 8:40:24 GMT -6
When I played QB in HS what I liked to do was run the option and throw the ball.
The college team I played on ran Houston Veer (and 4-3 Defense).
My first two years coaching at my HS alma mater we were a Power-I team.
I learned when we had better personnel than our opponents it was good.
When we didn't we had to run option and pass to move the ball.
The next two years I coached at colleges that ran Veer and 4-3.
So when I got my first head coaching job, that's what I went with.
And have stayed with for the most part ever since.
We are all products of our own experiences, good and bad.
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Post by s73 on Jan 21, 2013 9:05:47 GMT -6
For me it's been a combination of 4 things. 1 - My own experiences and preferences. 2 - Reaching out and networking with extremely successful coaches who were like minded. 3 - Coaching what I know and can teach the best. 4 - Combining the top 3 into a system that my kids can execute.
Also, I am always attending clinics or reading boards like this to continue to grow and evolve.
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Post by wingt74 on Jan 21, 2013 9:52:42 GMT -6
Speaking from the defensive side...I learned this while playing and coaching DLine.
If you are smaller and weaker, but fast, get in the gaps. If you are bigger and stronger but slower, play head up.
Zone works only when you two platoon...because a kid learning zone part-time is an extremely liability. Kids understand man to man defense. "cover this guy"
So, I run with an undersized defense, with 6 or 7 ironman players...thus we play a 5-2 gapped up defense...Man-1.
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Post by fantom on Jan 21, 2013 12:19:19 GMT -6
Zone works only when you two platoon...because a kid learning zone part-time is an extremely liability. Kids understand man to man defense. "cover this guy" That's not true at all. Makes me wonder, kids or coaches?
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Post by mariner42 on Jan 21, 2013 12:23:46 GMT -6
Amalgamation: Combining/uniting multiple entities into one form.
I played in the Wing-T and the Fly, coached in a four wide one back, Fly, Wing-T, Air Raid, Multiple Spread offenses. Defensively, I played in Under Quarters and TCU-esque 4-3, coached in Under Quarters, 3-4, 4-4, and two gapping 50.
"My" systems are a multiple set, up-tempo Pistol offense and multiple defense with 4-2-5 personnel. They exist solely in my head, but they are evolving every minute.
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Post by coachplaa on Jan 21, 2013 12:48:20 GMT -6
One of the factors was enjoyment. What do I enjoy coaching and what would I enjoy if I was a player.
One of the things I HATED as a player was 30 minutes of stretching and form running. One of the things that intrigued me early in my coaching career was throwing the ball at the high school level.
I was lucky to be "growing up" at a time when Hal Mumme's UK offense was getting notice, and I studied all that I could. Today I think we have a system that I know our kids really enjoy- not because its in style, but because it is fun. And because myself, and the coaches that I surround our kids with, all enjoy the scheme- I feel like we practice and execute it very well.
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Post by lochness on Jan 21, 2013 22:03:30 GMT -6
One of the factors was enjoyment. What do I enjoy coaching and what would I enjoy if I was a player. One of the things I HATED as a player was 30 minutes of stretching and form running. One of the things that intrigued me early in my coaching career was throwing the ball at the high school level. I was lucky to be "growing up" at a time when Hal Mumme's UK offense was getting notice, and I studied all that I could. Today I think we have a system that I know our kids really enjoy- not because its in style, but because it is fun. And because myself, and the coaches that I surround our kids with, all enjoy the scheme- I feel like we practice and execute it very well. Despite what many of us have been conditioned to believe, "fun" is a perception that you create as a coach. I've seen Straight T and Double Wing teams that have convinced their kids that demoralizing your opponent by running the same plays over and over again and not being stopped is fun.
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Post by coachb23 on Jan 22, 2013 1:42:30 GMT -6
"Fun" to me is winning - and it's my job as a coach to put our kids in the best position to do that.
That being said, I played in a Wing-T offense, then have coached Spread and Flexbone. Personally, I believe in running the football and playing great defense, and I love the option. So my offensive preferences are the Split Back Veer and Flexbone. As I mentioned, I've been in the Flexbone before, but after learning about SBV I feel like that offense suits my approach to the game.
Everyone is different. I have a good friend who is in love with the forward pass, and loves the Air Raid and worships Tony Franklin lol. You have to find what you personally believe in to win football games, and as others have said, are comfortable with and knowledgeable enough to coach your kids up.
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Post by davishfc on Jan 22, 2013 13:12:45 GMT -6
Desperation...
At my first school, to quote Duffy Daugherty, "we were small but slow" and not real bright or strong to boot. Prior to me taking over, the program was 5-40 over the previous 5 years under 3 different head coaches and forfeited it's last 5 games the season before due to injuries and numbers issues. Essentially the kiss of death for the year.
I wouldn't wish those conditions on any coach. But we did the best we could following that event. My tenure at that school was 11-32 overall during the 5 year span that I was head coach. Although the last 3 years we were 10-16, the closest we got to a winning season were consecutive 4-5 seasons in year 3 and 4.
Our basic premise was spread the field to get defenders out of the box and try to outnumber our opposition at the POA. We used several double option concepts to block fewer defenders as well. We relied heavily on misdirection and playaction for big play opportunities. The package we ran for the 5 years I was at that school are outlined in the articles section.
I've since moved on to a different school with more to work with and we still use the same principles but less option plays to move the football. My thought has always been that the approach we adopted with less talent would obviously work with more talent.
That was the case this year at the new school. We were not necessarily bigger or stronger but we were faster and smarter so that helped significantly. We went 6-4 and made the post season for the 15th time in school history.
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Post by jhanawa on Jan 23, 2013 9:04:40 GMT -6
Like others its been through exposure to programs & coaches, I played in a multiple "I" power/option offense in HS, I had 4 different offensive coaches & systems in college, multiple pro, flexbone, WCO and one back zone based offenses, after college I coached in Wing T, flexbone and then began running my own version of an offense which had a option and misdirection based run game with a passing game borrowed from my college years. We ran that for many years under center and backed it up into the shotgun about 8-9 years ago. We tinkered with footwork and timing until we got it right, it was a process.....About the same time we went gun I completely scrapped our system of play calling and went to a signal based/code word system. The guys I coach with thought I was nuts going into the gun and thought I was completely insane to toss out the terminology we've used forever, but IMO it was the best decision that I made regarding coaching offense. Our offense has been and continues to be an ongoing development, it gets better and more refined each year as our staff gets better coaching it. I've also learned a lot from guys on here that we've incorporated into our system. It's been a fun ride, kids love it, coaches love it and most importantly, it works.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Jan 23, 2013 12:24:44 GMT -6
I will approach this from an offensive side for now: When I started coaching (as a head coach, right out of the gate) I had less than no clue as to what I was doing. I played in a run and shoot in college and we always got beat by option teams, plus this was the heyday of OU, Nebraska and Air Force- so I wanted to be an option guy. We had modest success at best- thn I stared watching film, reaing books, going to clinics...the usual stuff and settled on WIshbone.
Pretty early on, that became a power wishbone- almost no option. I stayed with that for several years until we had some QB issues in 2005. I had been messing around with single wing (had studied it for about 10 years before we tried any of it I probably went through all this somewhere in a 2007 post..) so we want with it- and haven't looked back.
I am not trying to sell anyone on our- or any offense. I like it because we can run it- regardless of our personnel. Some years we might throw 1-2 passes a game and e 2TE almost ll the time. This past year, we averaged 25 passes a game (our average passing yards this year was half of our TOTAL in 2007). We run our offense. Our guys know this. Our kids coming up in the program know this. Next year's drive charts will look a lot different than this year's- but the offense will basically be he same. That is important to me.
I am sure some guys can change offenses rapidly and be successful. I know a few who do this and have success. I know of more who struggle because their teams and program lack an identity.
For me I want something effective enough that we can survive wit only about 5 plays, multiple enough that we can highlight our studs- no matter which position they play and transcendent of our abilities and limits... in other words, if I have a 65 200# QB one year and a 5'7 145# QB the next, I don't want to change systems. I want something that is adaptable. Like most on here, I coach what I get- next year we might have 160 yds. passing total... not per game. But our playbook will be the same... we will probably emphasize different things though.
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Post by fballcoachg on Jan 23, 2013 19:15:58 GMT -6
Compromise, experience, adaptation
Like everyone else, I am a product of experience. Played in a 1 back, student taught and helped in a 1 back, first job was in a 1 back and empty offense, ran a 1 back offense then a new HC came in...Then came compromise. He had a strong wing-t and a stronger option background. Since then has been a constant adaptation of option football and 1 back spread. We have pretty much merged the 2 and have tweaked it as we see fit/most beneficial. Lately we have been looking at whether bucksweep is worth adding and what it would take the place of but we have a pretty solid base that has remained consistent and has been pleasantly adaptable.
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Post by calkayne on Jan 24, 2013 8:39:10 GMT -6
With so many options how do you narrow it down to fit your style? What I dislike: Playbooks which are a collection of plays without a system behind them Coaches that are uncompromising and cannot adjust, because it isnt in the playbook. Not having a system, identifiable by language and an ruleset. Excuses based on we are small and/or weak So I went about researching and found that there is a specific personel package that I feel gives us the best chance to compete given the types of bodies we typically get. From there I drew up a number of different pass/run situations and started to create a rules set that is transferable including a language that is logical. Next step was to identify the key skills that I needed to be able to teach convincingly to make the less athletic player a football player and therefore competitive. This was a big learning step, Fundies beat Scheme. I could teach and sell my scheme, but it was harder to teach the on field skills. Now that I have been running the system for a few years, I am comfortable that I feel competitive against other teams regardless of talent. Because I can teach them the ins and outs of the rule set, which makes football much easier for them and we have identifed specific skills which we feel are important to our success. You have to be able to handle numerous situations within your system, from goal line to empty to 4back formations without having to teach something new.
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Post by davishfc on Jan 24, 2013 8:59:14 GMT -6
The trick to your system isn't the system, it's all the little pieces, the techniques, the steps, the hand placement, the HOW YOU DO WHAT YOU DO and how well you can TEACH it to your players so they can execute it that makes all the difference. Well put DC.
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Post by drewdawg265 on Jan 24, 2013 10:32:46 GMT -6
Great points on winning and executing being what kids find fun. We made some changes to our system this year because of we had a different skill set coming through our program for the next few years. Instead of being a gap blocking scheme we changed to zone. Instead of being under-center and sometimes shot-gun we went 100% shot-gun. Instead of of huddling we went no-huddle. Instead of running the ball 75% of the time we ran the ball more like 40-50% of the time. After we started 1-2 and came off an embarrassing loss I had a number of students asking why we changed our offense. It didn't matter what we were doing if it didn't get the results we were expecting. I am glad we made the changes we mmade because our personnel influenced them and it could have been worst if we kept doing what we had done in the past. We ended up winning 5 of our next 6 and sneaking in the playoffs and we got much better after that but when it was all said and done if we played poorly no matter what we did it would not have been fun for anyone involved.
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