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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 30, 2012 9:40:16 GMT -6
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Post by fantom on Dec 30, 2012 9:46:37 GMT -6
It is fun to think about, isn't it? A picture next to each name would be a nive touch.
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Post by davishfc on Dec 30, 2012 11:44:57 GMT -6
Nah. I would forget about this. I think positively setting kids apart is always supported. But setting them apart negatively will create a fire storm of epic proportion. I wouldn't touch this one. JMO.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 30, 2012 11:56:20 GMT -6
Nah. I would forget about this. I think positively setting kids apart is always supported. But setting them apart negatively will create a fire storm of epic proportion. I wouldn't touch this one. JMO. I agree.. but .. could you do the inverse then... and have a list saying Attn college coaches...the following players all work hard ..dont miss work outs... and I would be happy to speak with you about their character and college potential?
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Post by larrymoe on Dec 30, 2012 11:57:47 GMT -6
I keep a points total list for showing up to workouts, offseason camps, etc. Kids below the 66% of points we expect people to show up to I bold and italicize on the list.
Not exactly the same thing, but same kind of idea. I've never had any questioning of it.
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Post by tango on Dec 30, 2012 12:07:49 GMT -6
I keep a chart and great it daily on effort in the weight room and totally the pts. weekly. They fight like crazy to score the most pts. Not the same but they get the point.
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Post by davishfc on Dec 30, 2012 12:12:01 GMT -6
Nah. I would forget about this. I think positively setting kids apart is always supported. But setting them apart negatively will create a fire storm of epic proportion. I wouldn't touch this one. JMO. I agree.. but .. could you do the inverse then... and have a list saying Attn college coaches...the following players all work hard ..dont miss work outs... and I would be happy to speak with you about their character and college potential? Maybe. I still wouldn't go there. Doesn't mean it wouldn't work or get the message across. I would just be concerned that the potential costs could outweigh the benefits. Again, JMO.
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Post by coachdawhip on Dec 30, 2012 12:12:47 GMT -6
We already do maybe not as public but we do...
Everything we have a kid who isn't worth 2 pennies and a college coach asks, we tell them the truth
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Post by 42falcon on Dec 30, 2012 12:26:18 GMT -6
Different age & stage of kids. Cool they do it at LSU. I wonder how much it matters?
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Post by davishfc on Dec 30, 2012 13:47:48 GMT -6
Different age & stage of kids. Cool they do it at LSU. I wonder how much it matters? Good question.
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Post by davishfc on Dec 30, 2012 13:55:26 GMT -6
We already do maybe not as public but we do... Everything we have a kid who isn't worth 2 pennies and a college coach asks, we tell them the truth Good point. What we do is definitely not anywhere close to as public. But when I have those conversations over the phone or in person, I let the college coaches know. We just don't post it for everyone to see. I still believe that's the best way to handle it. I'm assuming this is a motivation type thing. I believe there are more positive ways to get those kids going without calling into question their college status. I mean what happens when the kids don't catch on with a college program after having positive feedback posted? It looks like an obvious credibility issue with the head coach. I mean we don't hand out scholarships or grant preferred walk ons, the college coaches do. Do we have input on character? Yes, but the film doesn't lie. If character-wise its a push then whoever has the ability will be granted the opportunity to play. Are we trying to get the kids motivated to play high school or college football? Statistically, 1 out of every 18 high school seniors will go on to play at the next level, any division. So we're posting this to motivate one kid? For the success of our programs we sure need to motivate more than on kid to make that happen. Just saying.
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Post by jgordon1 on Dec 30, 2012 13:58:15 GMT -6
I used to post attendance..I had 3 catagories..Gold, Silver, other
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Post by davishfc on Dec 30, 2012 14:05:09 GMT -6
I used to post attendance..I had 3 catagories..Gold, Silver, other I have too. But that's different I believe. You're still letting the kids draw their own conclusions about one another. The evidence there speaks volumes without having to state the potentially detrimental for you as a coach. You have evidence too of their commitment level which is information we obviously want.
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Post by mariner42 on Dec 30, 2012 14:05:50 GMT -6
I used to post attendance..I had 3 catagories..Gold, Silver, other HC has an old system that he hasn't had to implement here, but it's basically a board with rows of thin nails and five vertical sections. Each section has a title: "Liability", "Won't help us win", "Won't make us lose", "Competitor", "(Mascot)". Any varsity aspiring athlete would have their name on a tag like a temporary key label and they get moved across the board as they proceed through the off season. Guys who are busting their ass, helping others, and proving reliable get moved up, guys who are flaky, lazy, or selfish get down. It's posted in public for all the boys and any other students to see and updated about once a week. Dude's old school, but he wins.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2012 14:26:53 GMT -6
it becomes obvious who is lifting and who is not. But if you have talent, many coaches, like women, think they can change the guy... I think one of the mistakes that is made now a days, and been made for awhile, is we always try and protect kids from reality. Not showing up for workouts has consequences and the coach is doing the player no favors when the coach shields the players from the consequence of his actions.
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GANNO
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Post by GANNO on Dec 30, 2012 14:47:22 GMT -6
You have guts if you do this. While public praise is accepted and expected, public accountability creates problems in a public school. I know that demanding kids to be accountable for their decisions and to their teammates is what successful programs do. I also know you always have that kid or parent who does not want to be held accountable for their actions/decisions. If that parent or kid complains, you better have an administration that believes in the same philosophy on accountability. If not, you will be in for some problems. If you have that kind of support from your administration, I am envious and it will only be a matter of time before you guys are winning state titles.
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Post by groundchuck on Dec 30, 2012 14:50:49 GMT -6
We make a big deal out of rewarding kids who participate AND improve in the wt room. Shirts, awards, picture on the wall, names in the announcements. I've never done anything to publicly call a kid out. But behind the scenes? Absolutely I do.
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Post by carookie on Dec 30, 2012 14:59:17 GMT -6
I think you could do something like this in a high school, as long as you remove the editorializing. The coach in the link made comments about the players that, though may be accurate, are opinion.
Take the original message (in the link) and get rid of sentence #2 and the last part of sentence #3. Really, most anyone in the know could imply what you are inferring.
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Post by davishfc on Dec 30, 2012 14:59:34 GMT -6
We make a big deal out of rewarding kids who participate AND improve in the wt room. Shirts, awards, picture on the wall, names in the announcements. I've never done anything to publicly call a kid out. But behind the scenes? Absolutely I do. Well put Coach.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2012 15:00:04 GMT -6
You can have accountability without humiliating kids. Accountability does not equate to humiliation.
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Post by davishfc on Dec 30, 2012 15:01:48 GMT -6
You can have accountability without humiliating kids. Accountability does not equate to humiliation. True.
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GANNO
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Post by GANNO on Dec 30, 2012 15:18:25 GMT -6
You can have accountability without humiliating kids. Accountability does not equate to humiliation. While I agree that you can have accountability without humiliation, sometimes accountability may humiliate. It's not always in the best interest of your team to protect players just because you are afraid that what you say, do, or insinuate will humiliate a kid. I also don't think it's always in the best interest of your team to adopt humiliating kids as best practice. Every situation is a case by case situation. I get frustrated at the cultures that are created in most public schools. Kids are relieved of responsibilities because schools worry that we may upset them. Schools are not worried that upsetting them will cause harm, but worry that upsetting them will get the parents calling into the office. This culture lowers the expectations we have in regards to behavior, academics, and levels of commitment. When kids are challenged, they cry about it and we lessen the expectations. Sometimes humiliation is a useful tool for motivation. If you don't make appropriate choices or decisions you get humiliated. That is life. That is the 'real world.'
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Post by davishfc on Dec 30, 2012 16:01:44 GMT -6
You can have accountability without humiliating kids. Accountability does not equate to humiliation. While I agree that you can have accountability without humiliation, sometimes accountability may humiliate. Yes, I agree. In the case of this thread, the approach is meant to humiliate and therefore create a sense of accountability rather than the inverse which is what we should be after. Put the attendance on the wall and let the kids draw their own conclusions about it. They're smart, they'll figure it out. When teammates contact the guys who haven't been around to ask where they've been, it's humiliating. But maybe it isn't humiliating like it should be because they don't care that much. That tells you a lot about those kids as well.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 30, 2012 17:11:26 GMT -6
Now, question... at the HS level... if you post attendance...and the studs aren't showing up... and are still the studs... .does it get anything accomplished?
That said, there are some BIG TIME players on that list..some potential high draft choices...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2012 17:24:44 GMT -6
Now, question... at the HS level... if you post attendance...and the studs aren't showing up... and are still the studs... .does it get anything accomplished? That said, there are some BIG TIME players on that list..some potential high draft choices... that is purely on the coach...if you dont hold the studs to the same standards as the others, it shows.....
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Post by fantom on Dec 30, 2012 17:42:07 GMT -6
Now, question... at the HS level... if you post attendance...and the studs aren't showing up... and are still the studs... .does it get anything accomplished? That said, there are some BIG TIME players on that list..some potential high draft choices... that is purely on the coach...if you dont hold the studs to the same standards as the others, it shows..... So, what do you do about it?
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GANNO
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Post by GANNO on Dec 30, 2012 17:50:00 GMT -6
This is from a coaching friend and his views on this subject!
"There will always be people that question how you do things, you can't please everyone! I may not use verbatim, but maybe I can find a way to use the idea. I have tried many ways to hold kids accountable. As for winning, you have to have a large core of kids with the right attitudes, strong work ethic and talent. If you have that, it won't matter what offense or defense you run you will be successful. Even with success you will have people second guessing you. The problem is the kids with the right attitudes and strong work ethic sometimes do not have the talent and the kids with the talent usually don't have the right attitude and strong work ethic. Like I said you get a core group of kids that have the total package, you will have seasons that the community & school will be proud of."
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2012 18:57:49 GMT -6
that is purely on the coach...if you dont hold the studs to the same standards as the others, it shows..... So, what do you do about it? You have to be able to see over the trees so to speak. You have to believe in what you are doing, hold firm ( which is an oxymoron if you ask me) carry out your vision.If you squash it, you wont have those problems for long. You may lose a couple of studs initially, but their will be no doubt what the expectations are. It might even cost you a game or two...or six. But long term you are better off.
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Post by fantom on Dec 30, 2012 19:19:06 GMT -6
So, what do you do about it? You have to be able to see over the trees so to speak. You have to believe in what you are doing, hold firm ( which is an oxymoron if you ask me) carry out your vision.If you squash it, you wont have those problems for long. You may lose a couple of studs initially, but their will be no doubt what the expectations are. It might even cost you a game or two...or six. But long term you are better off. In our state we can't make the offseason mandatory. Even if we could I don't know that I'd cut off my nose to spite my face. If a guy's a lot better than the other guy he plays.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2012 19:25:23 GMT -6
You have to be able to see over the trees so to speak. You have to believe in what you are doing, hold firm ( which is an oxymoron if you ask me) carry out your vision.If you squash it, you wont have those problems for long. You may lose a couple of studs initially, but their will be no doubt what the expectations are. It might even cost you a game or two...or six. But long term you are better off. In our state we can't make the offseason mandatory. Even if we could I don't know that I'd cut off my nose to spite my face. If a guy's a lot better than the other guy he plays. you dont have to make it mandatory.....it becomes mandatory.....some guys just dont seem to get their due reps in practice....The nfl, which admittedly has more leverage, has turned this into an art form...They do it in recruiting....the recruiting pipe will miraculously keep a player on the sideline during spring ball.
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