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Post by fantom on Dec 5, 2012 8:01:41 GMT -6
Disciplined hard working smart kids with decent athletic ability are what most of us call studs. Add in a couple of d1 athletes and you got yourself a small school state champion! You know what I mean. Everyone says that private schools recruit top level (college bound) kids. They say that they're always outmatched because of the number of top notch athletes at these schools. Now, I know this is true in some cases as you do have your football factories. But I don't think it's as regular of an occurrence as people think. These coaches don't talk about the work ethic or the atmosphere if the private schools. They're always complaining that they recruit the "best athletes". The dominant private school in this state has sent one kid to an FCS school in their past run and he was a walk-on. They don't even have that many that go NAIA or D2. There is an 8-man team that sent more kids to the college level than they did. I think it depends on the state. Here in Virginia there are some good private school teams and there have been some excellent players who have come from privates but the public schools are clearly better overall. Yet we've seen examples from many states where private schools dominate the state playoffs year in and year out. Is it always because of superior discipline?
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Post by John Knight on Dec 5, 2012 8:33:44 GMT -6
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cls
Junior Member
Posts: 295
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Post by cls on Dec 5, 2012 12:42:41 GMT -6
Plus they can play in lower divisions because they don't have to count DEAD WOOD kids that get all Fs and couldn't play if they wanted to. We have over 250 boys in our school but only 45 are on the football team grades 9-12 and that is mostly because there are 200 boys that don't want to come to school everyday and work much less stay after and work hard for 3 hours. [/quote]
Really 200 boys that dont want to come to school? Only 45? I would say you have a school problem, not a competitive balance problem.
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Post by coachwoodall on Dec 6, 2012 10:10:42 GMT -6
In SC there are 200+/- that play football in the SCHSL. 4 are private.
The remaining privates play in SCISA.
2 of the privates that play with publics have won back to back titles this year. But other than that I am pretty sure that there has been only one other time one of the privates won a title.
3 of the four play in our lowest classification (A) and the other is in the next classification up (AA). BE (AA) has an enrollment of 712 and the range for AA is 456-857. CC (A) has 328 SJ (A) has 339 SC (A) has 312 and the range for A classification is 135-447.
Of the two that won it again this year, most of the kids that go there have been enrolled since kindergarten, and their families have gone there for several generations. Interesting enough CC has become a bit of a A power house only after a coach retired out of the public schools and both he and his brother came in and moved them to the next level. They had always been a winning program, but usually were first/second exits from the playoffs.
There usually aren't many kids at these schools that are superior talents to the kids across the field (at least success programs). Usually for every kid that a team would say, "Oooo, I'll take him", there are 2-3 on your team they would take (or more).
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Post by dubber on Dec 6, 2012 12:01:48 GMT -6
I've decided that private schools' main advantage is they have less obstacles to overcome.
Their kids pass grade, don't have to work a job, have access to 3 meals a day, have parents that care and expect something from them, etc.
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Post by wingtol on Dec 7, 2012 7:30:08 GMT -6
I've decided that private schools' main advantage is they have less obstacles to overcome. Their kids pass grade, don't have to work a job, have access to 3 meals a day, have parents that care and expect something from them, etc. Don't get me wrong because it is a different type of kid for the most part at a private school. But don't be fooled and think those problems never occur at a private school. I would bet lots of kids have jobs to help pay, have parents who are screwed up with bad family situations, they fail classes, etc.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 7, 2012 11:24:43 GMT -6
I've decided that private schools' main advantage is they have less obstacles to overcome. Their kids pass grade, don't have to work a job, have access to 3 meals a day, have parents that care and expect something from them, etc. Don't get me wrong because it is a different type of kid for the most part at a private school. But don't be fooled and think those problems never occur at a private school. I would bet lots of kids have jobs to help pay, have parents who are screwed up with bad family situations, they fail classes, etc. Just like all public schools aren't populated entirely by students with no support at home, aren't infested with gangs and drugs, and all students aren't apathetic. I would say though, but by jr/sr year, the "negative" kids often work their way out of the school...as parents wont pay tuition for the kid to be unsuccessful
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Post by wybulldogs on Dec 7, 2012 15:45:34 GMT -6
In Pennslyvania the Public vs Private thing comes down to local public schools playing against County-Wide All Star Teams.
If Ohio also goes the way of New Jersey, Pennsylvania should be soon to follow with entirely separate brackets.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 8, 2012 23:09:34 GMT -6
Update---in Louisiana, the 1A, 2A, 3A, and 5A titles were won by Private Schools this year (with 2A and 3A being private vs private games). Only the 4A champ was a public school.
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Post by John Knight on Dec 9, 2012 12:12:03 GMT -6
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 9, 2012 13:03:54 GMT -6
John....if private schools were removed... would the "void" just be filled by the same public schools year in and year out?
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Post by John Knight on Dec 9, 2012 19:06:21 GMT -6
Maybe but you could also add a success factor to the mix!
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 9, 2012 20:37:07 GMT -6
Maybe but you could also add a success factor to the mix! Well geez coach...separating the privates, and THEN adding a success factor to the remaining public schools??? If that is what you are suggesting, then isn't that the same as a "everyone gets a trophy" doctrine?
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Post by John Knight on Dec 9, 2012 20:58:03 GMT -6
I am just saying, some states do that.
If we want a real champion, just have one division, all teams in one playoff! 1 State Champion!
That is the only way people won't say it is watered down!
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 9, 2012 21:07:54 GMT -6
I am just saying, some states do that. If we want a real champion, just have one division, all teams in one playoff! 1 State Champion! That is the only way people won't say it is watered down! States separate the private/public schools AND THEN institute a success factor??? I understand the arguments on both sides, I am simply saying that it isn't as simple as what many think. For example, in the top class in Lousiana (which has not been "dominated" by privates.. in the last 17 years with an average of say 60 teams in that class each year, the 34 potential slots playing for the championship have been filled by only 12 different teams.
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Post by John Knight on Dec 9, 2012 21:20:08 GMT -6
I was not being serious coach. I do think there is a way to make it more balanced but it would be more about splitting the state into regions and doing away with STATE championships.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 9, 2012 21:29:27 GMT -6
I was not being serious coach. I do think there is a way to make it more balanced but it would be more about splitting the state into regions and doing away with STATE championships. Coach, a little confused. I am pretty sure you werent being serious regarding the single class tourney, there can be only one free for all like Indiana basketball.... but were you serious about the separation of privates AND success factors being done in other states?
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Post by John Knight on Dec 9, 2012 21:43:57 GMT -6
I wasn't serious about the success factor. I just think there needs to be a change in Ohio.
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Post by wybulldogs on Dec 10, 2012 0:36:04 GMT -6
Part of what always made High School football great was the pride in the community. Kids growing up looking forward to playing for their school's team. Taking pride in their district, getting to wear those colors when they get the chance.
In Pennsylvania, you essentially are looking at County/City All Star Teams with the Private Schools. You have the Pittsburgh All Star Team, the Harrisburg All Star Team, the Philadelphia All Star Team, the Erie All Star Team, and the North East All Star Team. It's a complete joke, but god forbid anyone brings up the recruiting element. All you hear is the constant denial.
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Post by wingtol on Dec 10, 2012 9:21:01 GMT -6
Part of what always made High School football great was the pride in the community. Kids growing up looking forward to playing for their school's team. Taking pride in their district, getting to wear those colors when they get the chance. In Pennsylvania, you essentially are looking at County/City All Star Teams with the Private Schools. You have the Pittsburgh All Star Team, the Harrisburg All Star Team, the Philadelphia All Star Team, the Erie All Star Team, and the North East All Star Team. It's a complete joke, but god forbid anyone brings up the recruiting element. All you hear is the constant denial. I hear what you are saying but being at a small private school in PA I can tell you we are far from a county all-star team. This year 100% of our kids came from private schools. Our city schools just aren't an option for some families (I work in the city district and sadly can say we are not in good shape as a district). Now there is a big private school in our city that is one of those all-star teams where all of a sudden half their team decides that after 9 years of public school they want to be Catholic. They are playing for a title this weekend. I know this is like arguing abortion or fighting trench warfare where both sides are dug in and not moving an inch. Some places do it right and some places private schools are the only option of you want you kid to have the best.
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Post by John Knight on Dec 10, 2012 9:36:31 GMT -6
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Post by irishdog on Dec 15, 2012 13:10:00 GMT -6
I have been a successful head coach and an assistant coach, an AD, and a Dean of Students at private (Catholic) schools throughout the US for most of my career (with the exception of 2 years when I was a HC at a city public school). If I wanted to hit the pavement to recruit I would have stayed in college coaching. Private schools MUST recruit students in order to fulfill their attendance goals. We hold open houses twice per year. In the case of Catholic schools our admissions people visit all the Catholic grammar schools. Parishes promote Catholic education. Some churches establish limited scholarships for two or three students within the parish to enable them to attend a private school of their choosing. PARENTS for the most part do much of the "recruiting" for us because of their admiration, devotion, and satisfaction with the education their children receive in Catholic schools. And... once the parents of a prospective student establish a connection with the high school admissions office they are encouraged to have the student spend a day "shadowing" at the high school. Once the prospective student is on campus for a visit it is at that time the coaches would meet the student IF the student is interested in athletics, and discuss his/her program with the student, and establish a contact. Under MOST if not ALL state athletic association rules this process is considered acceptable and NOT breaking any state association rules. There have been, are, and always be those coaches who are "exceptions" to the rule in BOTH private AND public schools. Believe me, I have seen my share of them! However, for the most part, most of the private school coaches I have known, and who I know now prescribe to following the rules, and the schools they work for insist they do. Currently I live and coach in Texas. We have separate state associations for public and private schools, and separate state tournaments. Many of us play public schools in non-district contests. Historically in Texas, public schools have ruled the roost in athletics, and continue to do so. Most private schools have only existed since the mid-80's and only a few Catholic schools have been around for more than 50 years. So... as a result... the interest in high school sports has historically belonged to the public schools, while the private schools continue to play second fiddle. However, public education as a whole in Texas is beginning to show signs of decline, and as a result the private schools are beginning to benefit from that decline. While pubic schools continue to dominate the headlines it won't be long before the private schools start receiving the same attention. Yet... the segregation of public and private schools will not ever change.
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Post by mariner42 on Dec 16, 2012 11:28:58 GMT -6
California State Games update: Open - Private De La Salle captures their 4th Open Division title in a row, defeating Public Centennial. In other news, water is wet. 1-0 Privates D1 - Public Granite Bay (Go Grizzlies!) defeats Public Long Beach Poly. 1-1 Private:Public D2 - Private Serra defeats Public Oakdale. Not even close. 2-1 Privates D3 - Private Marin Catholic loses to Public Madison HS. Great game. 2-2 D4 - Private Central Catholic curbstomps Private Santa Fe Christian 66-7. 3-2 Privates
Also, Nor-Cal wins 3-2... WHASSUP!
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