|
|
Post by hsrose on Oct 3, 2012 13:01:39 GMT -6
www.sacbee.com/2012/09/30/4867019/high-school-football-meeting-set.htmlwww.sacbee.com/2012/10/02/4875969/football-coach-is-out-players.htmlI don't know all of the details here, but basically a 3-sport Sr. informs the HC that he's missing a league game to go to a baseball showcase. Coach says turn in your gear, 11 other players quit in protest/support, coach and 2 assistants get fired. Apparently one of the factors was that this wasn't spelled out a team rule book or anything. Everyone apparently agrees that the situation was handled badly, but the coach is still out and the players are back on the team with a 1-game suspension. Thoughts, comments? We've had this in the summer, but not during the season so I don't know how it would be handled.
|
|
|
|
Post by jgordon1 on Oct 3, 2012 13:10:01 GMT -6
coach probably over reacted..a multiple game suspension for the kid is appropriate....seriously, my first day as a HC a parent comes to me and says his kid needs to miss a game to play in the Babe Ruth world series...he was suspended for 1 game as he was a frosh and the parent gave plenty of notice
|
|
|
|
Post by joelee on Oct 3, 2012 13:24:48 GMT -6
I'm on the side of the coach here. He and his assistants and 21 remaining players were right. Not every scenario can be written down and signed off on. Sometimes an administrator needs some balls to support his people. I wouldn't work for him.
|
|
|
|
Post by 19delta on Oct 3, 2012 13:26:41 GMT -6
Never a good idea to back yourself into a corner. Sounds like that is what this coach did.
|
|
kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
|
Post by kyle on Oct 3, 2012 14:24:36 GMT -6
www.sacbee.com/2012/09/30/4867019/high-school-football-meeting-set.htmlwww.sacbee.com/2012/10/02/4875969/football-coach-is-out-players.htmlI don't know all of the details here, but basically a 3-sport Sr. informs the HC that he's missing a league game to go to a baseball showcase. Coach says turn in your gear, 11 other players quit in protest/support, coach and 2 assistants get fired. Apparently one of the factors was that this wasn't spelled out a team rule book or anything. Everyone apparently agrees that the situation was handled badly, but the coach is still out and the players are back on the team with a 1-game suspension. Thoughts, comments? We've had this in the summer, but not during the season so I don't know how it would be handled. This isn't the only thing going on. |
|
|
|
Post by carookie on Oct 3, 2012 15:12:21 GMT -6
I had a 1st team all state WR a couple years back who was a big time baseball kid. We worked it out during the summer so he could be at a lot of baseball camps and showcases, and he was pretty good at attending camps, workouts, and passing leagues when in town. It was made clear though that during football season practices and games would take precedence over baseball (he played in Saturday games every weekend after films).
I'm not saying the coach was right or wrong in giving the kid the boot; I'm just surprised that there wasn't a preemptive agreement made prior to the season. All sports are year round now, and if you have a kid who has potential in another sport you need to be proactive and explain to them (and their parents) what and why your expectations and rules are.
|
|
|
|
Post by mariettablue on Oct 3, 2012 15:12:48 GMT -6
I think the HC had the right idea but the wrong solution. He could made the kid put in some extra work to get his playing time back. Maybe even if you miss this one for self you have to sit out the first half of the next two games. The sad part is that the coach gave the kids a chance to change their mind and the principal gave him the same opportunity and the Coach lost in the end.
|
|
|
|
Post by airman on Oct 3, 2012 17:04:05 GMT -6
I never understand why coaches get so upset in these situations. Let him go play baseball then let him pick splinters out of his butt sitting on the pines. THe bench is a wonderful motivator.
As for the coach, the minute I got fired I would be making a call to my lawyer and sicking him on the administrator like a pitt-bull
|
|
|
|
Post by airraider on Oct 3, 2012 18:11:36 GMT -6
Started a job in the spring... early summer the Ag teacher tells me that every year around the 7th week they have some sort of national deal and there are usually at least a couple of his kids who are football players...
So the kid who went through the season as QB was promptly removed as QB and placed at LB simply because I could not go into a season with a kid as my QB knowing he would not be there during a district ball game....
There was no punishment... but I felt that was the 1 position that I could not go into a season with while knowing he would miss a game for sure.
|
|
|
|
Post by mariettablue on Oct 3, 2012 18:32:25 GMT -6
Started a job in the spring... early summer the Ag teacher tells me that every year around the 7th week they have some sort of national deal and there are usually at least a couple of his kids who are football players... So the kid who went through the season as QB was promptly removed as QB and placed at LB simply because I could not go into a season with a kid as my QB knowing he would not be there during a district ball game.... There was no punishment... but I felt that was the 1 position that I could not go into a season with while knowing he would miss a game for sure. Agree! Thank goodness you were forewarned but that should have been disclosed pre- hire I think? ..but at least you found out. |
|
|
|
Post by mholst40 on Oct 4, 2012 0:30:16 GMT -6
I was with the coach until I found out there was no policy in place. While all situations can't be covered, missing practice or a team function should be and has to be documented with the players. I dislike players who miss team events because they have something else going on. I support multi-sport athletes, but they need to honor their in-season commitment. If this kid's baseball livelihood hinged on this one showcase, he probably isn't that good anyway.
|
|
|
|
Post by tango on Oct 4, 2012 8:18:24 GMT -6
You can not cover everything with rules on a piece of paper. If the school board and principal does not support you get out. Simple but true for this old timer.
|
|
|
|
Post by blb on Oct 4, 2012 8:33:43 GMT -6
Our policy is absences are excused only for illness, family emergency, or church obligations.
So this would have been an unexcused absence.
But we don't kick a kid off team until he's had three.
|
|
|
|
Post by mitch on Oct 4, 2012 8:34:35 GMT -6
Agree with most on here. You can't let players miss games for a sport that is out of season. I would expect there were other 'showcases' he could've attended. This was not a 'once in a lifetime' opportunity. If he missed a practice, film session, etc. that's one thing. Missing a contest is a completely different animal.
The player shouldn't have been dismissed, though. A suspension would've been fitting in this situation. Kicking a player to the curb for this is ridiculous.
The principal was spineless, big surprise.
This all should have been hashed out weeks ago, though. The head coach must be clear on expectations. He dropped the ball big time.
|
|
|
|
Post by spos21ram on Oct 4, 2012 8:34:56 GMT -6
www.sacbee.com/2012/09/30/4867019/high-school-football-meeting-set.htmlwww.sacbee.com/2012/10/02/4875969/football-coach-is-out-players.htmlI don't know all of the details here, but basically a 3-sport Sr. informs the HC that he's missing a league game to go to a baseball showcase. Coach says turn in your gear, 11 other players quit in protest/support, coach and 2 assistants get fired. Apparently one of the factors was that this wasn't spelled out a team rule book or anything. Everyone apparently agrees that the situation was handled badly, but the coach is still out and the players are back on the team with a 1-game suspension. Thoughts, comments? We've had this in the summer, but not during the season so I don't know how it would be handled. This isn't the only thing going on. So elaborate for us. |
|
|
|
Post by jgordon1 on Oct 4, 2012 9:35:09 GMT -6
Our county actually has a rule in place about this situation..it is generally used for soccer and other AAU stuff..like any other rule, there are some work arounds but generally the coach is notified
|
|
|
|
Post by tango on Oct 4, 2012 9:56:41 GMT -6
Have used the rule thing were the only excused absence is death, illness, and so on. To have the school board over turn if for fall vacation because fall vacation was not included in the policy. The signed rules by the parent and student will not hold up in court.
|
|
|
|
Post by jlenwood on Oct 4, 2012 10:01:10 GMT -6
I'm gonna take a little bit of a different view here than some of you. I coach at a small school, we have probably 25% of the boys from every grade (9-12) playing now. Of these 45 kids, I can think of maybe 8-10 that are 2 sport or single sport athletes. The rest are 3 sport players.
What happens, and this is just my uneducated scientific conclusion, is that when a coach forces a player (at the smaller school level) to choose a sport, more times than not they will do just that and choose 1 with the other sports loosing out on a player.
When you have a large number of kids to pull from in your school and you can field 60 or more, this probably isn't a big deal. To us it is. I can look at basketball and see some of the best players in the school setting in the stands, coach won't let them out of summer stuff to play baseball. This is just one example, but I see it all the time.
Why not let the kid go, give him a one half penalty, or maybe even a full game (I wouldn't go that far) but let the kid stay on the team. It makes no sense to me that a coach would give a KID that type of ultimatum. Same with the agriculture stuff airraider talked of. Football is not the only thing these kids are involved with and isn't going to be their future in most cases. Have a way to handle each individual, and find a way to work it out with out making a kid choose one thing over the other.
|
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Oct 4, 2012 10:03:11 GMT -6
I'm curious about when the player told the coach that he was going to miss the game.
|
|
|
|
Post by irishdog on Oct 4, 2012 10:35:27 GMT -6
The very same situation happened to me. Starting TE/DE told me at the start of the season he would miss our last regular season game to participate in the "area code" baseball showcase in OK. He was an outstanding baseball player projected to be signed out of HS, and a decent football player that was also getting looks from DI schools. I told him I appreciated his heads-up, reminded him that another player would take his place that particular week, and when he returned he would have to earn back his playing time during practice the next week in order to PLAY (not start) in the first playoff game. He understood, and we went on to play in the state championship with him, I didn't get fired, and my team supported my decision. Oh, by the way, that same kid went on to become a relief pitcher for the Houston Astros. Had the kid been a so-so baseball player, and better football player I would have handled it the same way.
|
|
|
|
Post by mitch on Oct 4, 2012 11:22:28 GMT -6
I'm gonna take a little bit of a different view here than some of you. I coach at a small school, we have probably 25% of the boys from every grade (9-12) playing now. Of these 45 kids, I can think of maybe 8-10 that are 2 sport or single sport athletes. The rest are 3 sport players. What happens, and this is just my uneducated scientific conclusion, is that when a coach forces a player (at the smaller school level) to choose a sport, more times than not they will do just that and choose 1 with the other sports loosing out on a player. When you have a large number of kids to pull from in your school and you can field 60 or more, this probably isn't a big deal. To us it is. I can look at basketball and see some of the best players in the school setting in the stands, coach won't let them out of summer stuff to play baseball. This is just one example, but I see it all the time. Why not let the kid go, give him a one half penalty, or maybe even a full game (I wouldn't go that far) but let the kid stay on the team. It makes no sense to me that a coach would give a KID that type of ultimatum. Same with the agriculture stuff airraider talked of. Football is not the only thing these kids are involved with and isn't going to be their future in most cases. Have a way to handle each individual, and find a way to work it out with out making a kid choose one thing over the other. This isn't making a kid choose between sports. Football has a specific season, as does basketball, etc. A showcase is not a 'sport'. In the case of an agriculture event, I would be OK with a kid missing a practice. I don't think I would be OK with missing a game, however. And yes, there are agriculture contests for those of you who don't know, haha. Meat judging is one we have in OK. The best player on my team in HS missed a practice or two to go judge sirloins and ribeyes. Thankfully, he wasn't kicked off the team. |
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Oct 4, 2012 11:26:24 GMT -6
For some of these kids a showcase is a job interview.
|
|
|
|
Post by rhscoachbh on Oct 4, 2012 12:37:58 GMT -6
We had a kid miss a game last year to go to the junior olympic tryouts. We didn't punish him, just said good luck. How many opportunities does a kid have like that? He came back and started the next week for us and earned defensive player of the game.
|
|
|
|
Post by gdoggwr on Oct 4, 2012 13:48:59 GMT -6
It sounds like that was handled very poorly on both sides.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Oct 4, 2012 14:19:42 GMT -6
Well, maybe the coach should have been fired. He was dumb enough to try and boot a kid off of the team for something like that. Call it coaching Darwinism; weed out the idiots so some more sensible coaches can work their way in.
Why do I get the strong feeling that coach isn't a teacher.... Why in the hell would you want to bring that much stress on yourself in that situation? Here's how you handle it:
"Good luck at the Babe Ruth Fall Ice Cream Social, Billy. Rest up on your down weekend because you're going to have to work awful hard next week to get your starting spot back."
I had kids that used to ditch out of practice for "cultural events" (I taught/coached on a reservation). I laid out the repercussions and let them make their choice.
|
|
|
|
Post by jlenwood on Oct 4, 2012 15:38:20 GMT -6
Why do I get the strong feeling that coach isn't a teacher.... Why would you make that statement? Are you saying being a teacher exempts you from making dumba$$ decisions? |
|
|
|
Post by CS on Oct 4, 2012 19:23:31 GMT -6
Why do I get the strong feeling that coach isn't a teacher.... Why would you make that statement? Are you saying being a teacher exempts you from making dumba$$ decisions? No he is saying that it is hard to fire a teacher. So if he also taught then he wouldn't have gotten fired. |
|
|
|
Post by tothehouse on Oct 4, 2012 19:40:45 GMT -6
The coach that got fired is a teacher. He teaches in the district. He had been at the school 17 years as a coach (but only a few as the HC).
I emailed him directly and got a response. This ended up not being about the baseball players as much as the whiny kids who quit in defense of their friend.
I wouldn't say majority, but a LOT of the heavy hitting Sacramento area coaches think it's BULL {censored} that he was fired. To have the administration put the players back on the team and fire the coach going against the rules the coach set just flipped a lot of things over.
The guy who replaced him is retired. Who would want to be the HC at that school now?
I totally disagree that a baseball showcase is like a job interview to these kids. This kid had to pay his way to the showcase. Job interviews they invite you. The kid is rumored to already have a scholarship offer, but claimed he needed to go to get more.
|
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Oct 4, 2012 19:46:57 GMT -6
The coach that got fired is a teacher. He teaches in the district. He had been at the school 17 years as a coach (but only a few as the HC). I emailed him directly and got a response. This ended up not being about the baseball players as much as the whiny kids who quit in defense of their friend. I wouldn't say majority, but a LOT of the heavy hitting Sacramento area coaches think it's BULL {censored} that he was fired. To have the administration put the players back on the team and fire the coach going against the rules the coach set just flipped a lot of things over. The guy who replaced him is retired. Who would want to be the HC at that school now? I totally disagree that a baseball showcase is like a job interview to these kids. This kid had to pay his way to the showcase. Job interviews they invite you. The kid is rumored to already have a scholarship offer, but claimed he needed to go to get more. Nobody payed for my job interview. The timing of this has a lot to do with how I feel about it. When did the player tell the coach about the showcase? |
|
|
|
Post by tango on Oct 4, 2012 21:33:54 GMT -6
I have been a head baseball coach and head football coach and if I had a player miss a game in either sport for a combine or showcase I would have a big problem with it. They would probably be done. I have coached a QB that went on to play in the majors and we had no problems. I was also his baseball coach.
Also, coached a kid that placed in the national sci. fair and missed a couple baseball games, since it was school related it was not an issue.
Since all of our QB's play baseball what would you do if all of them went to a showcase?
|
|
