|
Post by jlenwood on May 18, 2012 6:02:09 GMT -6
fantom....I don't understand how you can agree with the AD who says he wont micromanage. That is not micromanaging to demand accountability of your coaches and their programs, that is his freaking job!! Micromanaging is selecting players, telling you how to run practices etc. Managing a division of your department is demanding accountability.
And as far as the bball coach discussion...it is not HIS business, it is the athletic departments business. I understand as coaches we all want to be left alone to take care of OUR business, but when it affects the other parts of the organization (athletic department as a whole) it becomes every ones business.
Sorry to get off the op original topic, but I really am fed up with AD's letting poor performing coaches go by every year and wasting years of the high school athletes career because they wont take care of what needs to be done. End of rant.
|
|
|
Post by coachbuck on May 18, 2012 7:25:04 GMT -6
I agree with fantom. You have to let the hc of his sport decide his team policies. What if the AD did put up a policy that was loosie goosie not alot of accoutability. What are you gonna do now? That is a slippery slope I wouldnt want to ride on.
|
|
|
Post by mitch on May 18, 2012 7:36:31 GMT -6
Any AD that lets a coach play kids who don't come to practice needs to be fired along with the coach.
If cb is giving an accurate description of what's going on, as I'm sure he is, they both need to go. That just makes the whole athletic department a joke.
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on May 18, 2012 8:02:54 GMT -6
I agree with fantom. You have to let the hc of his sport decide his team policies. What if the AD did put up a policy that was loosie goosie not alot of accoutability. What are you gonna do now? That is a slippery slope I wouldnt want to ride on. We weren't just going to let the AD set the policy. All of the coaches were going to sit down, come to a consensus on what was fair and establish it as a policy.
|
|
|
Post by ajreaper on May 18, 2012 9:10:39 GMT -6
If as a coach if you fail to hold kids accountable at the most basic level- attendence and effort then what are you teaching them? You'll be helping to handicap them for life because in the real world there is accountability.
The reason the AD will not act is because he's just looking out for his own butt, why mess with a "winner"? It's absolutely gutless on his part if conditions are as described (or even close to as described). Having school wide rules that apply to all athletics is far from micro managing- it's like saying having speed limits is the state micro managing drivers rather then not wanting our streets and roads to be killing fields (beyond what they already are).
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on May 18, 2012 9:16:01 GMT -6
If as a coach if you fail to hold kids accountable at the most basic level- attendence and effort then what are you teaching them? You'll be helping to handicap them for life because in the real world there is accountability. The reason the AD will not act is because he's just looking out for his own butt, why mess with a "winner"? It's absolutely gutless on his part if conditions are as described (or even close to as described). Having school wide rules that apply to all athletics is far from micro managing- it's like saying having speed limits is the state micro managing drivers rather then not wanting our streets and roads to be killing fields (beyond what they already are). Let's set this up a whole different thread.
|
|
|
Post by davishfc on Jun 23, 2012 12:59:39 GMT -6
I think blb is right. You have to evaluate your expectations of the players during the off-season as well as during the season. Are you asking too much? Can you be just as competitive doing alittle less. There is a threshold you must pass in terms of commitment and effort in order to compete at a high level.
After that, there is another commitment/effort threshold a team must pass in order to compete at the highest level. Coaches must evaluate if the journey to the highest threshold of commitment/effort is appropriate for their program. Can you honestly make it? I know that goes against conventional thinking but it's a question that must be asked.
Or are you just going to lose players along the way toward a destination that the likelihood of getting there is extremely low. Basically, know your audience. Know your team and know the competition. What is your talent level as well as that of your competition? What is your coaching staff relative to that of your competition? I don't believe setting realistic goals should be looked upon negatively which is what may be the perception to the questions I'm saying coaches must ask.
Coaches must also evaluate how their philosophies and/or approaches to coaching on a daily basis is being responded to by the players. The old phrase "be yourself unless you're a jerk" comes to mind. Will the vast majority of them run through a wall for you? If so, keep on keeping on. If not, "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" is Albert Einstein's definition of insanity.
I agree with other programs being part of the problem. If you have high expectations and they don't, you have a serious issue especially at a small school where you have several three-sport athletes. If the only season those players have high expectations on them is during football, the potential for them to resent football is much higher.
Another factor that must be discussed is the catch 22 of feeder programs. In my experience, feeder programs can be a positive in that players are more experienced and understand fundamentals much better than players brand new to the sport. Of course that can go the other way depending on the philosophy and approach of the coaches at that level.
But sometimes all of those years in feeder programs where everything was fun and everybody got a chance to play with little to no preparation to do so creates a disconnect at the high school level. Now they have to work and some kids don't like that. They just don't love football enough to make the commitment and put in the effort necessary to compete at a high level. So you end up having junior and seniors quitting because they don't "love it anymore" when really what they're saying is they just don't want to commit to compete at that level.
Maybe that's an argument an argument to have some coaches with low expectations like the basketball programs referenced earlier. It goes against everything I believe. But maybe programs like that are necessary for those kids who want the greatest likelihood for a huge return on their investment of time.
Maybe those kids are future businessmen. I mean with an attitude that revolves around driving "costs" (commitment/effort) as far down as possible which increases "profits" (playing time, girls, prestige)...what the hell else are they going to do? Sometimes the journey is more important than the destination and if they don't believe that as kids, the likelihood they'll believe that as an adult isn't very high in my opinion.
Sports have never been about assessing risk or cost-benefit analysis. The majority of kids never get ou of sports what they hope they will in terms of team and individual accolades. But the positive experience they get regardless of W-L records and the lessons taken from the commitment/effort of preparing to compete at a high level will, without a doubt, last a lifetime. That's what sports are all about. Not everything in his world is which is what makes high school athletics so great.
|
|
|
Post by mrjvi on Jun 23, 2012 14:00:28 GMT -6
"But sometimes all of those years in feeder programs where everything was fun and everybody got a chance to play with little to no preparation to do so creates a disconnect at the high school level. Now they have to work and some kids don't like that. They just don't love football enough to make the commitment and put in the effort necessary to compete at a high level. So you end up having junior and seniors quitting because they don't "love it anymore" when really what they're saying is they just don't want to commit to compete at that level."
TREMENDOUS INSIGHT!!!!!!! This is where I'm losing players. THANKS!!!
|
|
|
Post by bigduke6 on Jun 23, 2012 17:56:43 GMT -6
How is an AD going to oversee the "attendance" policy?
He/she going to go to every sport's practice and take roll.
be serious.
If you are assuming football players are quitting because the basketball team's coach doesn't care who shows and who doesn't, i think you are wrong in your assumption.
An AD taking roll isn't going to happen.
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Jun 23, 2012 18:41:04 GMT -6
How is an AD going to oversee the "attendance" policy? He/she going to go to every sport's practice and take roll. be serious. If you are assuming football players are quitting because the basketball team's coach doesn't care who shows and who doesn't, i think you are wrong in your assumption. An AD taking roll isn't going to happen. Having school-wide policies for all sports sounds good until they make a policy that you don't like.
|
|
|
Post by holmesbend on Jun 23, 2012 21:52:42 GMT -6
Basketball and baseball are killing us, and I get it......all they do is play, play, play, play, play. Our basketball team won 25 games this year and went deep into the post season, a week after the Sweet 16 (KY here, our State Tourney @ Rupp) KY schools get to have "open gym", and they play the whole freaking month of June (yes, as a team, not AAU, against other schools....it's literally a season of it's own in June for the round ballers here in KY). If that's not enough, our baseball team gets beat in the region final game (Two days after Memorial Day)...guess what they start up the following week? You guessed it...their June season.
Here in KY, we aren't allowed to do 7v7 competition with other schools until the 2nd week of July, and we only get a couple weeks of that (can't 7v7 with other teams after our first day of full gear practice...well, we could, but it counts as an actual scrimmage).
Back to the point I'm making/realizing is that kids seem to be asking themselves this......with football, I can workout 8 months (off season, jan-july) out of the year to play 10 games, or I can play basketball, baseball, etc where I can play more games than their are days in the year and piss on the weights, speed training, conditioning, God awful practice conditions (heat) that come with football?
By the way, some of you might remember me posting back in late winter that I was in trouble of possibly only having 3 kids inmy sophomore class next year? Well, I have some news.....we are now down to.....drum roll......TWO (had one move).
|
|
|
Post by mrjvi on Jun 24, 2012 6:22:18 GMT -6
There have been other posts on other threads about us to "stop whining and do something about it". Normally with most things I would absolutely agree. But this, for me, is very different. I'm not sure if there is anything I can do to get committment and numbers. I am VERY open to suggestions. I've been very accepting of whatever they do to the other extreme of being a real prick. (unfortunately for here, being a prick and more demanding works a little better) I may not get many but what I get at least works hard. My other coaches in the school who are friends say to just relax and accept it. Not going to happen if I can help it. Can this sign of the times be changed? ?
|
|
|
Post by blb on Jun 24, 2012 6:48:48 GMT -6
Too many of us apparently feel that if we don't do EVERYTHING our respective states allow or as much as neighboring-competing teams are doing in Off-Season that translates into being "soft" as coaches, making it too "easy" for the kids, and ultimately losing.
|
|
|
Post by holmesbend on Jun 24, 2012 8:21:38 GMT -6
BLB,
That's the thing....I've always tried to be one of your mindset, many get caught up with thinking that they aren't being perceived as working hard enough if they aren't doing what the school up the road is doing.
Our off season from Jan-End of school, consisted of M, T and Th workouts...and we very seldom, if ever went longer than an hour. From the time school was out May 16th-this past Thursday, we only went on Tues and Thursday evenings (lift/went out to 7v7/compete against ourselves).
Many of them have jobs, farm, play other sports (which I'm all for), so I've tried to accommodate. We've gone 6-5, 5-6, 7-5 the past three years...even a 10-3, Region Finalist season in '06. So, while we aren't exactly the creme of the crop, we aren't exactly sucking hind tit either. Just keep on keeping on I guess?! Our freshmen class will be 12-15 kids (quality within those numbers) and our 7th/8th grade classes are beating down the doors in numbers...could very possible have 55-60 in 7th and 8th grade alone.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2012 18:58:55 GMT -6
Holmesbend, it sounds like things are going pretty well with those records and quality classes coming up. The best you can do is good enough.
|
|
|
Post by davishfc on Jun 24, 2012 19:31:37 GMT -6
How do I as a HS coach make HS football as fun as it was then and be competitive? dc...that is the million dollar question isn't it?
|
|
|
Post by holmesbend on Jun 24, 2012 22:26:11 GMT -6
How do I as a HS coach make HS football as fun as it was then and be competitive? dc...that is the million dollar question isn't it? That it is. DC....I ask myself that everyday. Speaking of LL baseball...no joke. Some kids our community are playing on 3 different baseball teams this summer. I asked their parents what they do about practice? Their answer? They don't. Three different travel teams...so, all they do is play, play, play, play,play.
|
|
|
Post by blb on Jun 25, 2012 10:15:29 GMT -6
Here's an analogy:
I once had occasion to watch an 8-9 year old youth team at beginning of a practice, you know, the kids where the helmet is as big as some of them.
For 30 minutes they ran laps and did every calisthenic (Jumping Jacks, Toe Touchers, Leg Lifts, etc.) you can think of - without touching a football.
I said to myself, "The kids who love Football will figure out how to survive and get through it.
"Those who don't will learn Football's not very much 'fun' and never play again."
|
|
|
Post by coachdennis on Jun 26, 2012 9:07:30 GMT -6
Here's an analogy: I once had occasion to watch an 8-9 year old youth team at beginning of a practice, you know, the kids where the helmet is as big as some of them. For 30 minutes they ran laps and did every calisthenic (Jumping Jacks, Toe Touchers, Leg Lifts, etc.) you can think of - without touching a football. I said to myself, "The kids who love Football will figure out how to survive and get through it. "Those who don't will learn Football's not very much 'fun' and never play again." This is so true - why is it that most people can't see this? For the opposite effect, watch the kids playing for fun at the park, once their game has wrapped up, etc., and see how hard they go, and how many great plays they make. Then ask yourself, "Why can't/won't they do that during practices or games?" I am considered a heretic by many traditional football guys because I really try to keep it fun and upbeat. Do we hit hard and get to the football in a hurry? You bet we do. Every drill we do, though, replicates game conditions, and we scrimmage a ton because I have this odd belief that football starts with a play, and that kids get better at the game by actually playing it. We don't run gassers, yet our kids are always strong in the fourth quarter. We don't obsess over film, yet our kids can always execute. Still, though, after 21 years of doing this, and having a fair bit of success along the way, I am not considered to be a "real football guy" by some guys because I don't do things, "the right way". If the "right way" is making kids miserable and teaching them to hate the game, then I am quite happy to be wrong.
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Jun 26, 2012 9:17:38 GMT -6
Here's an analogy: I once had occasion to watch an 8-9 year old youth team at beginning of a practice, you know, the kids where the helmet is as big as some of them. For 30 minutes they ran laps and did every calisthenic (Jumping Jacks, Toe Touchers, Leg Lifts, etc.) you can think of - without touching a football. I said to myself, "The kids who love Football will figure out how to survive and get through it. "Those who don't will learn Football's not very much 'fun' and never play again." This is so true - why is it that most people can't see this? For the opposite effect, watch the kids playing for fun at the park, once their game has wrapped up, etc., and see how hard they go, and how many great plays they make. Then ask yourself, "Why can't/won't they do that during practices or games?" Because when you're playing a pickup game whenever you get too tired or too hot or embarrassed by a bad play you can just quit.
|
|
|
Post by coachdennis on Jun 26, 2012 10:14:03 GMT -6
Because when you're playing a pickup game whenever you get too tired or too hot or embarrassed by a bad play you can just quit. Fair point, but how is that different from what they do in the real games? ;D Seriously, how many times have we seen kids mentally bail out of games once they decide they have had enough for the day? (With the younger ones, this is about the time that they take themselves out of the game with some phantom/borderline injury.)
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Jun 26, 2012 10:23:55 GMT -6
Because when you're playing a pickup game whenever you get too tired or too hot or embarrassed by a bad play you can just quit. Fair point, but how is that different from what they do in the real games? ;D Seriously, how many times have we seen kids mentally bail out of games once they decide they have had enough for the day? (With the younger ones, this is about the time that they take themselves out of the game with some phantom/borderline injury.) That's the point. Quitting is human nature. That's what we, as HS coaches, are trying to change. Here are other things that you'll see in pickup games: "Grab" tackling. "Titty" blocking or no blocking at all. Turning and watching the guy with the ball instead of pursuing. Ducking out of the way when the "big kid" runs the ball. Arguing in the huddle about who gets the ball. That's sandlot football. It's human nature. Getting better than that is what coaching is about. It's also why it's "harder" to play HS football. Drive blocking does not come naturally.
|
|