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Post by tigerpride on May 8, 2012 6:40:27 GMT -6
Colleges rely heavily on spring football. Colleges have their kids live on campus during summer and do "voluntary" 7 on 7 's. I was at Miami Oxford (OH) last summer for a HS 7 on 7 camp and there must have been 50 players out there practicing with no coaches present. Even lineman were going thru drills, hitting pads, sled, etc. so even though they arent having official practice, they are getting things done.
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Post by Chris Clement on May 8, 2012 6:46:12 GMT -6
On their own schedule, their own time, and of their own volition.
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Post by newhope on May 8, 2012 6:55:46 GMT -6
We work out three days a week over the summer. We tell them we count any athletic camp they attend as "present" at our workout---as long as they let us know in advance they are going. We give them 3 "free" days during the summer for vacation, other events that come up, etc. We also give them a week when we shut down completely (and suggest that is a GREAT time for vacations). One of the best things we've done is to give those who do not attend 80 percent extra conditioning when practice begins. We emphasize this is NOT punishment, it is to get them in the same condition the others are in for their own SAFETY.
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Post by blb on May 8, 2012 7:02:50 GMT -6
Granted but those are young adults who chose to accept scholarships to commit that time to Football.
We're dealing with adolescents who also have to find time for Summer baseball games, basketball camps, working at Mickey D's, chasing girls, and squeeze in a little time with Mom and Dad going to Yellowstone or wherever.
For many of them Football isn't even their favorite sport. It's just the one they "do" in the Fall.
It's our favorite sport. We make sometimes unreasonable and unnecessary demands on them in the name of "Commitment" when really it's because we're afraid of losing.
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Post by coachwoodall on May 8, 2012 7:04:50 GMT -6
Weights MWF Speed TTh
must make 80%, which means basically they can miss 2 full weeks, plus there is a mandatory dead week right before 2 a days.
They can miss 2 work outs for camps and get credit for a lift.
So far as the 'I have AAU/Legion ball/etc...' excuse; we tell the kid, 'Great job, we want our athletes to play multiple sports'. We then ask then what time is your game and let them know that they can still work out that day because we have both AM and PM work outs.
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Post by Chris Clement on May 8, 2012 7:09:36 GMT -6
And if the basketball coach did that you'd have a conniption fit.
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Post by tigerpride on May 8, 2012 7:10:47 GMT -6
On their own schedule, their own time, and of their own volition. Sure - but I would be with some recommendation.
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Post by coachwoodall on May 8, 2012 7:20:36 GMT -6
And if the basketball coach did that you'd have a conniption fit. Why? We have a great relationship with these coaches. The best third baseman I ever coached never missed a work out, even on game days. And I am not talking about a modified work out like we do now; what ever was on the board is what he did: squat, clean, deadlift, etc... at the percentages everyone else was doing. Right now we do modify the work out for those kids; no 1 rep maxes, heavy volume, etc... The point is if you let the kids make an excuse, then they will use it. If the weight room is important, then find a way to make it work. Work out at 8 AM = 2 hours total = finish at 10 AM. Game that evening at 6 PM = 8 hours of recovery.
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Post by tigerpride on May 8, 2012 7:30:45 GMT -6
And if the basketball coach did that you'd have a conniption fit. Why? We have a great relationship with these coaches. The best third baseman I ever coached never missed a work out, even on game days. And I am not talking about a modified work out like we do now; what ever was on the board is what he did: squat, clean, deadlift, etc... at the percentages everyone else was doing. Right now we do modify the work out for those kids; no 1 rep maxes, heavy volume, etc... The point is if you let the kids make an excuse, then they will use it. If the weight room is important, then find a way to make it work. Work out at 8 AM = 2 hours total = finish at 10 AM. Game that evening at 6 PM = 8 hours of recovery. Agreed !!! my workouts are at 8am all summer long and i do this because i know kids will work and/or play select sports during the summer. they have all day to rest up for that game. and kids are resilient, they can practice/lift in the am, and hit a baseball later on that night. You made a great point about IMPORTANCE. It either is or isn't. I am challenging our kids to be responsible and make football a bit more important.
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Post by jgordon1 on May 8, 2012 7:33:32 GMT -6
and the truth emerges
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Post by Chris Clement on May 8, 2012 7:36:10 GMT -6
But baseball and basketball aren't practicing twelve months a year, is my point. It's great that you have an entente with them, I've known many coaches who make it combative, and both sports lose.
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Post by olsenray61 on May 8, 2012 7:39:10 GMT -6
I feel everyone has very valid points, schedules and practice requirements. The one observation that I've made in my 35+ years of coaching is if you don't have the athletes it doesn't matter. If you control the numbers you control the game. So what ever you have to do to control the numbers get it done.
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Post by coachwoodall on May 8, 2012 7:42:58 GMT -6
I was just answering the OP.
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Post by fantom on May 8, 2012 8:30:38 GMT -6
But baseball and basketball aren't practicing twelve months a year, is my point. If they're not where you are then things must be very different. Where I am I'm not sure basketball takes Christmas off.
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Post by hemlock on May 8, 2012 8:52:39 GMT -6
Folks, let's understand something: Football is a year long vocation, for coaches and players. I have not problems with players playing other sports, so long as THEY understand that every choice has a consequence. If you CHOOSE to play baseball in the spring and cannot participate in spring drills then understand that you will most likely fall behind in the depthchart in more than one way. If you can make it up in the summer that's great, but if you can't and you don't play then don't be upset when I remind you about the choices you made before. I will layout for the kid that is with us all the time because he's the one I can trust.
Parents need to understand that the summer belongs to football. This is when we win in the fourth quarter and why we play in December. Very simple. Moms and dads have to buy into the program. I will schedule a week off in June and 10 days off in July. Plenty of time for vacation and what not. If Mom and Dad book a vacation and you go, that's fine, so long as you remember that when you get back you have to start at the bottom again.
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Post by blb on May 8, 2012 9:07:17 GMT -6
Folks, let's understand something: Football is a year long vocation, for coaches and players. I have not problems with players playing other sports, so long as THEY understand that every choice has a consequence. If you CHOOSE to play baseball in the spring and cannot participate in spring drills then understand that you will most likely fall behind in the depthchart in more than one way. If you can make it up in the summer that's great, but if you can't and you don't play then don't be upset when I remind you about the choices you made before. I will layout for the kid that is with us all the time because he's the one I can trust. Parents need to understand that the summer belongs to football. This is when we win in the fourth quarter and why we play in December. Very simple. Moms and dads have to buy into the program. I will schedule a week off in June and 10 days off in July. Plenty of time for vacation and what not. If Mom and Dad book a vacation and you go, that's fine, so long as you remember that when you get back you have to start at the bottom again. I strongly disagree with this. HS Football is only a "year long vocation" if you make it one. It doesn't have to be, and if you make it so, you are guilty of over-emphasis. HS kids should be able to participate in as many activities as they can. Your attempting to make kids choose between other sports (baseball) and spring drills is incredibly selfish. And to dictate to parents that "summer belongs to football" is unbelievably presumptuous
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Post by Chris Clement on May 8, 2012 9:14:33 GMT -6
I fundamentally disagree with your thesis, and propose a Hegelian antithesis.
Football is a game among many. my personal favourite, and a popular one, but no higher power has anointed king of the sports. I appreciate that some of you practice year-round because you have to so that you might keep pace with your opponents, but that strikes me as fundamentally wrong.
In Quebec, they have a "Sport-Student" program, where kids can spend the entire afternoon working on their sport. There are kids doing football pretty much year round. Are they significantly better than the players I've seen elsewhere, where this program doesn't exist? No, not really. The teams are actually much worse, because all the good athletes get locked into one sport, and any other sport takesa back seat. Kids are pushed into specialization from grade 7, and the Montreal MLS team is sponsoring a soccer variant of this program from THE THIRD GRADE. Kids don't give a crap about their sport, and even the ones who love it are fed up by June, they end up getting exactly July and one week of August off before jumping back into the grind.
We talk players, not plays. it's a favourite cliché around here. If you practice ten times more but lose a bunch of players, are you favouring players or plays?
I would apply this logic to any sport that feels justified in expanding the bounds of its season at the expense of others.
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Post by ajreaper on May 8, 2012 9:53:45 GMT -6
The nature of high school sports has changed as the nature of college and professional sports has. The 1st NFL strength coach was hired in 1976, if I recall correctly, and the notion of training for strength, power, speed and agility evolved. Training to develop a better athlete is very important and that is what much of the off season is spent doing- even in the summer the emphasis is still on developing the athlete and specific sports related skills are secondary. Our job as coaches is to provide opportunity and hold players accountable. If you miss due to a vacation there is nothing wrong with having "make ups" of some kind- not punishment but a simple gesture to the group that I am accountable to the whole. You were here working and I was not. Parents like to whine its punishing a kid for missing and if that's so then on a job, if you are paid an hourly wage and you miss a day due to illness and you do not work overtime or a weekend and your pay check is less then your peers are you being punished or just being held accountable for work you did not do?
I think it's important you do not put athletes in a position to have to choose between family vacations and practicing and you must be willing to share your athletes with other programs who work hard in the summer to to improve their programs but there is nothing wrong with holding them accountable for missing in some way.
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Post by mholst40 on May 8, 2012 10:05:24 GMT -6
For better or worse here is what we do... I coach in California in the Sac-Joaquin Section. As another poster observed, the rules for summer are different in every section.
We can have spring practice during the month of May but we are limited to 8 hours per week and 1.5 hours per day. The only equipment we can use is a football. We can't use pads or bags.
During June and most of July we can practice as much as we want, but we are still limited to the same equipment restrictions as in May. We can attend one contact camp and be in full pads for upwards of 4 or 5 days I believe.
We aren't practicing yet because we have a ton of kids playing spring sports (and all three of our returning QBs).
Once summer starts, we practice 3 days per week. This includes lifting/running and an actual football practice. In all, it is about four hours total per day, so 12 hours per week. This year, this period will last for 5 weeks during June. Then, we give them the week of July 4 off (except for one day towards the end of the week). The following week we will do strength & conditioning testing and leave for our team camp that runs Friday-Sunday.
When we come back from our team camp, we are in what our Section mandates as a dead period for three weeks. This means, we can't use any type of football equipment. We encourage parents during our parent meeting to schedule vacations for the July 4 week or the last two weeks of summer during the dead period.
Official football practice starts August 6. This is the only time practice is MANDATORY. Otherwise, it is highly encouraged and we use a point system to reward attendance. Players pick jersey number and equipment in points order.
If a kid goes on vacation during the off-season when we have an activity scheduled, oh well. It's probably not his fault anyway. He just doesn't earn the points for missing practice. It's as simple as that too us. Whether that is right or wrong, we have found that system to work well for us. One additional thing we will do this summer is have players select Accountability Groups and their summer attendance points rely on the average of their group. Hopefully this encourages them to use some positive peer pressure to get everyone out to practice.
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Post by fantom on May 8, 2012 10:06:47 GMT -6
It's our favorite sport. We make sometimes unreasonable and unnecessary demands on them in the name of "Commitment" when really it's because we're afraid of losing. I don't even think it's that. I think most of this stuff is just a way for coaches to feed their jones for football. Having QB's throw with receivers has value but I don't think that most of the other stuff does. How many times do you really need to run Power? Do you really need to spend all summer to figure out where the deep third is? I think that a lot of this stuff (not conditioning, football-specific stuff) is a waste of time primarily designed to make coaches feel like they're Doing Something.
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Post by coachbuck on May 8, 2012 12:31:58 GMT -6
Blb I don't know where you coach at but in my area most coaches, baseball, basketball, football make their sport year long. Right or wrong its a fact and I do think if you want to be good in football you need to be lifting in the off season. Fantom I agree, you can only run power so many times. I think spring ball is a waste of time. In my opinion I would focus on lifting, lifting lifting.
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Post by blb on May 8, 2012 12:53:07 GMT -6
Blb I don't know where you coach at but in my area most coaches, baseball, basketball, football make their sport year long. Right or wrong its a fact and I do think if you want to be good in football you need to be lifting in the off season. Where I coach is in the box at left. I never said we don't lift in the Off-Season. We do. But we don't pressure kids into not playing other sports or tell parents how to run their families. And we are good in football.
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Post by coachbuck on May 8, 2012 12:58:45 GMT -6
Blb wasn't meant at dis respect. I was just telling you how it is out here. Im sure you are very good I read most of your posts.
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Post by mrjvi on May 8, 2012 14:15:29 GMT -6
I fully expect the kids to lift off season, preferably in the other sports they may play. All of our other sports play their sport year round here in NY. Lifting year round is not practicing football year round even though other coaches in my school say it is. Ignorant and hypocritical. I expect summer strength and conditioning attended in the summer. (6-8pm M-Th) I allow 1 week of vacation and also count lifting meets during the school year toward the summer number. For 6 weeks I expect 18 sessions made. If they are short they have an extra amount of work to be done (@ a 1/2 hour) after doubles for each day under 18 until they will play in any game. My only philosophy hitch is encouraging kids to do other sports knowing they won't be lifting at all. Don't like it but have had to learn to live with it.
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mce86
Junior Member
Posts: 281
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Post by mce86 on May 11, 2012 12:14:31 GMT -6
1) Don't make a player make a choice. He may choose baseball over football, and he may have been a contributor to your team. Not every player has football as their number one priority. 2)By mandatory, do you mean official State Association start date, or what you have deemed mandatory? If it is official practice, that's one thing; if not, when are they supposed to have a family vacation? How can you tell a family not to go on vacation during the "off-season"? We have high expectations in our program, but it is counter-productive to put kids in no-win situations, IMHO. I see there are 52 replies already, but this is the best answer IMO. For kids, football is not number one always..for some it is. Some kids, baseball is number 1 and football is 2...you wouldnt want them to quit football right? Share the kids, teach the next kid in line. For vacations, some families arent going to not schedule their vacations around football. So be it. At our school, we had an additional problem....many kids were working to support their families. We told them do the best you can to make your schedule work! Some coaches had individual workouts with some kids that couldnt make it to keep them caught up.
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mce86
Junior Member
Posts: 281
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Post by mce86 on May 11, 2012 12:21:57 GMT -6
Folks, let's understand something: Football is a year long vocation, for coaches and players. I have not problems with players playing other sports, so long as THEY understand that every choice has a consequence. If you CHOOSE to play baseball in the spring and cannot participate in spring drills then understand that you will most likely fall behind in the depthchart in more than one way. What would you tell Lebron James during basketball season? Or Jay Cutler, Joe Montana...to name a few? Id bet if you look up most NFL players were multi-sport athletes in High School and it did not hurt their progress. I think HS sports and parents tend to get two one -dimensional....let the kid run, throw, catch, and workout. Whether it is in a sport , weightroom, or track, they should get full credit for that.
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Post by coachcb on May 11, 2012 12:28:50 GMT -6
But baseball and basketball aren't practicing twelve months a year, is my point. It's great that you have an entente with them, I've known many coaches who make it combative, and both sports lose. I have found that basketball and baseball coaches are worse than football coaches when it comes to the off-season. We don't have high school baseball in this state; we have Legion. So, the Legion coaches went a head and set up a fall baseball league in a lot of areas. The kids are playing baseball year round now. And, the schools can't do anything about it because it's private league. Basketball 'open gyms' are nothing more than off-season practices that are run year round. They get in trouble for it at the school so they move it to a local playground or any other open basketball court. I have worked in two schools where basketball coaches had no problems running 'voluntary' open gyms during football practice in the fall. Every football coach I have been around tries to work with other sports to make sure everything is flexible. We set up the weight training schedules so that they don't interfere with other sports, we push the kids to play multiple sports, etc..And, the majority of the workouts are weights and conditioning which benefits all sports. I have only received reciprocation from one basketball or baseball coach.
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Post by jlenwood on May 11, 2012 13:52:43 GMT -6
Parents need to understand that the summer belongs to football. Coach, with all due respect, this may be one of the most absurd things I have ever read on this board. If any coach EVER told me that summer belongs to football, and my son had to make a choice between family and a sport, I would tell him to shove that sport up his a$$. In Ohio, we can start official or mandated practices on August 2nd. We get 10 days in the summer, and yet there are coaches who still want more. Now we are not a Division 1 school where you have 120 kids playing football, we have maybe 45. Of those 45 you probably have 10-15 who are die hard all about football types. Those kids would love to practice year round. However, at some point we need to balance the reality that the majority of our kids are playing for the fun of it. I know some on here are going to roll there eyes when they see a coach mention "fun", but seriously, these kids have an entire work life ahead of them....let's not make high school football a job! Our kids lift from December 1 thru the end of the season. They attend camps on their own schedule during the summer. They are encouraged strongly to attend our 10 days of camp in July, but you know what, if they can't make it it ain't the end of the world. Once August 2nd rolls around, now we might start talking about repercussions, like about everyone else on here. You go back to the bottom of the chart, make up what you missed and try to work your way back to the top. That is reasonable.
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Post by coachrobpsl on May 12, 2012 9:18:48 GMT -6
I don't coach high school I coach the little guys so you can take what I have to say with a grain of salt. It seems some of you guys are taking this way too seriously and rule your team like a 3rd world nation dictator or a prison warden. Believe me, that is how your players see you. You will fail if you try to force this level on commitment on all kids. Some kids have things in their lives that come before football and there is absolutely nothing you can or should even try to do about it. The audacity to think that CHILDREN have to exclude all the other important things in their lives just to play a game is troubling. I do agree that you should have an off season program and kids that don't make it are going to be behind the ones that do attend. But putting football before family??? Family should be the most important thing in these kids lives. I played football and wrestled in high school. I loved both sports equally but was better at wrestling. I spent much of the summer going to wrestling camps and tournaments. My football coach told me I needed to make a decision between the 2 sports(I was starting at te on a team that was a state semi-finalist the year before) because my level of commitment was not where it should be. He wrongly tried to explain that my conditioning and strength was not going to be where it needed to be. If any of you have ever been to a wrestling practice run by a quality coach you know how absolutely absurd this comment was. Wrestling practice makes football conditioning seem like a stroll on the beach. I lifted with the wrestling team because they lifted harder. Anyway(sorry for the rambling) I wasted no time in explaining to my coach that my level of commitment was exactly where it needed to be and if he was forcing me to chose then he would need to find himself a new te. A few days later he recanted and I nicely told him to shove it up his ... I have never forgiven that coach for doing that to me because I truly loved playing football. I will never be guilty of repeating that mistake.
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Post by mahonz on May 12, 2012 11:07:00 GMT -6
Question.
Do any of you find the need to somewhat overdue things in the off season because of the pressures from above?
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