|
|
Post by Chris Clement on Apr 14, 2012 21:17:10 GMT -6
That's kind of my point. The Hangover isn't making kids alcoholics any more than Dee Snider made satanists out of kids 25 years ago. Kids are plenty capable of being idiots on their own, and always have been.
|
|
|
|
Post by groundchuck on Apr 15, 2012 5:51:58 GMT -6
That's kind of my point. The Hangover isn't making kids alcoholics any more than Dee Snider made satanists out of kids 25 years ago. Kids are plenty capable of being idiots on their own, and always have been. I think there has to be some blame on the parents for permitting this behavior, and for allowing to spin out of control. Parents need to stop being their kids friend, and be their parent. I need to be licensed by the state to teach and coach, but nobody needs a license to be a bad parent. |
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on Apr 15, 2012 9:21:01 GMT -6
Cheech and Chong and Animal House were borderline movies who have only become mainstreamed over time. They were on the fringe of society and only those people who were into that kind of thing watched them. They weren't shown on network TV. There's usually at least 1-2 stoner/party movies out a month in today's culture. The subculture of drugs has went mainstream. That's absurd. Up in Smoke was the #12 movie of 1978, Cheech and Chong won a Grammy in 1973. Animal House grossed 141 million. More recently, Dazed and Confused came out in 1993 and is set in 1976, Pulp Fiction came out in 1994. It makes no sense to argue that in 1995 people started pinching out kids that were drug fiends where before they'd been analogues of Beaver Cleaver. To argue such is pure fogeyism. You're right. Drugs have always been as big of a problem at the HS level as they are now and mass media has never influenced anyone.  |
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on Apr 15, 2012 9:22:38 GMT -6
We are close to 45% free and reduced lunch and about 35% Hispanic. It's mostly our farm kids who are the weekend warriors driving there 25k pickup trucks who are the problems. we have a lot of parents buying Booze and kegs from what we are hearing. Interesting. Have those numbers stayed relatively static during your time there? |
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Apr 15, 2012 9:25:23 GMT -6
That's absurd. Up in Smoke was the #12 movie of 1978, Cheech and Chong won a Grammy in 1973. Animal House grossed 141 million. More recently, Dazed and Confused came out in 1993 and is set in 1976, Pulp Fiction came out in 1994. It makes no sense to argue that in 1995 people started pinching out kids that were drug fiends where before they'd been analogues of Beaver Cleaver. To argue such is pure fogeyism. University of Michigan longitudinal study shows drug use of 12th graders SIGNIFICANTLY higher in the late 70's than today.... |
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Apr 15, 2012 9:36:57 GMT -6
That's absurd. Up in Smoke was the #12 movie of 1978, Cheech and Chong won a Grammy in 1973. Animal House grossed 141 million. More recently, Dazed and Confused came out in 1993 and is set in 1976, Pulp Fiction came out in 1994. It makes no sense to argue that in 1995 people started pinching out kids that were drug fiends where before they'd been analogues of Beaver Cleaver. To argue such is pure fogeyism. University of Michigan longitudinal study shows drug use of 12th graders SIGNIFICANTLY higher in the late 70's than today.... No question. They didn't even try to hide it back then. There were times when you could get a contact high by going into a stadium before a game (I could recognize the smell because-ummmmm-we learned about it in a Health class. Yeah, that's the ticket, Health class). |
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on Apr 15, 2012 9:54:40 GMT -6
From your link it suggests that drug use is rising, nad it even references the idea that it is because of loosening ideals on the hazards of drugs. These kind of studies don't even take into account the synthetics that ALOT of kids use, because in most states these aren't even considered drugs. You can buy them at the gas station. And maybe drug use has always been a part of the problem. But the area I'm from drug use is at all time highs. Kids who never thought of doing stuff heavier than drinking are picking up coke and heroin addictions. Maybe that's normal where you are. |
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on Apr 15, 2012 9:58:15 GMT -6
No question. They didn't even try to hide it back then. There were times when you could get a contact high by going into a stadium before a game (I could recognize the smell because-ummmmm-we learned about it in a Health class. Yeah, that's the ticket, Health class). And now we get to the crux of a lot of people's argument. Since they did it or know people that did it, obviously that meant a lot of people did it. Maybe I'm the converse as I've never done a drug harsher than alcohol. Never smoked anything outside 5 cigars. I don't even take aspirin. Never hung out with people that did drugs. I wouldn't know what weed smelled like if you stuck in my face. That's why some of these parents throw these parties for their kids. To keep them "safe". They remember drugging and drinking and all that crap, so rather than try to be the bad cop they just enable their kids in the name of "safety" and in self guilt about telling their kids to not do something that they themselves did. |
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on Apr 15, 2012 9:59:24 GMT -6
Double Post. Sorry.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Apr 15, 2012 10:02:04 GMT -6
From your link it suggests that drug use is rising, nad it even references the idea that it is because of loosening ideals on the hazards of drugs. These kind of studies don't even take into account the synthetics that ALOT of kids use, because in most states these aren't even considered drugs. You can buy them at the gas station. And maybe drug use has always been a part of the problem. But the area I'm from drug use is at all time highs. Kids who never thought of doing stuff heavier than drinking are picking up coke and heroin addictions. Maybe that's normal where you are. Rising...from lows in the early 90's. Not rising from HIGHS in the 1970's. This graph reported solely on marijuana use..which is the most widely used illegal drug in the USA. |
|
|
|
Post by coachjd on Apr 15, 2012 10:08:49 GMT -6
We are close to 45% free and reduced lunch and about 35% Hispanic. It's mostly our farm kids who are the weekend warriors driving there 25k pickup trucks who are the problems. we have a lot of parents buying Booze and kegs from what we are hearing. Interesting. Have those numbers stayed relatively static during your time there? noty at all. when we came here 11 years ago we had less than 5 hispanic students per grade, and but our free and reduced lunch was close to what we are at right now. farm kids played sports and were the positive leaders in our building. I know they were drinking but not partying like they are now. The farm kids are the negitive leaders right now. they are promoting the Weekend Warriors activities. I did a lot of what they are doing when i was a 20 year old college student, but did not even think of these things when I was 16-17 years old. I grew up right down the road and so I am very familiar with the area. My wife is just finishing up here student teaching. She did 10 weeks at my school and 5 in my home town. She was flat out amazed at the difference in attitude, culture and student behaviors between the 2 towns. We will have 4-6 opeings for my wife to apply for at my school and she has no desire to even apply after witnessing what she saw down the road 30 miles. |
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on Apr 15, 2012 10:16:09 GMT -6
noty at all. when we came here 11 years ago we had less than 5 hispanic students per grade, and but our free and reduced lunch was close to what we are at right now. farm kids played sports and were the positive leaders in our building. I know they were drinking but not partying like they are now. The farm kids are the negitive leaders right now. they are promoting the Weekend Warriors activities. I did a lot of what they are doing when i was a 20 year old college student, but did not even think of these things when I was 16-17 years old. I grew up right down the road and so I am very familiar with the area. My wife is just finishing up here student teaching. She did 10 weeks at my school and 5 in my home town. She was flat out amazed at the difference in attitude, culture and student behaviors between the 2 towns. We will have 4-6 opeings for my wife to apply for at my school and she has no desire to even apply after witnessing what she saw down the road 30 miles. Interesting. I've noticed a similar trend in ag kids in my last couple schools before where I am now. You are pretty close to describing my alma mater and last place of employment before my current gig. Albeit our rise in minority %s isn't entirely Hispanic. Do you think it has its' base in the changing world of agriculture? Farming used to be a pretty work intensive job and they weren't afraid to work endlessly. Today, with technology, the tractors drive themselves with GPS. |
|
|
|
Post by spreadattack on Apr 15, 2012 10:17:46 GMT -6
There's a big difference between kids will be kids (and movies of the sort) and when a culture of laziness/selfishness pervades a community/school/team. I don't think they are the same thing. I think the kids will be kids, animal house/hangover whatever is all fine and just part of life, fun for some people to be ignored by others.
But what you guys are describing is a lot worse than anything that can be blamed on some dumb movies. It's kids squandering opportunities and choosing to be losers -- losers on the field, losers in the classroom, and, the only thing that can result from all of that, losers in life. Ostricizing kids that try hard is really the wrong attitude, and it's tough to turn all that around.
I think there's nothing wrong with finding a new location where you can coach kids that want to be coached. It's your life, and no reason to bang your head against the wall forever. It's sad if it's happening at a place with a great tradition, and maybe it is just a current crop of bad apples that can kind of "turn the tide" for a few years, but it's a shame.
|
|
|
|
Post by ogre5530 on Apr 15, 2012 14:23:40 GMT -6
I don't think it's the drugs or the booze because you are always going to have some of that wherever you go. Today's technology ridden society full of games and computers where you can get instant gratification without working hard is the problem. When I was a kid there was a Nintendo and that was it...my parents made sure our butts were outside doing something whether it was playing sports, or riding a bike or what have you. Too many parents allow their kids to sit around and play video games for hours instead of trying to be a good parents. It's easy to control Jimmy when you can through and Xbox in front of him...my 2 cents!
|
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on Apr 15, 2012 14:57:16 GMT -6
I don't think it's the drugs or the booze because you are always going to have some of that wherever you go. Today's technology ridden society full of games and computers where you can get instant gratification without working hard is the problem. When I was a kid there was a Nintendo and that was it...my parents made sure our butts were outside doing something whether it was playing sports, or riding a bike or what have you. Too many parents allow their kids to sit around and play video games for hours instead of trying to be a good parents. It's easy to control Jimmy when you can through and Xbox in front of him...my 2 cents! I don't know that video games are the issue. Everyone one of my kids on my team now plays quite a bit of video games and we generally have a 75-85% attendance rate at all offseason lifting and conditioning activities. Heck, when given free time I play them every now and then. I do think that your assertion that parents don't let their kids play is partially correct. I just think video games get blamed when they aren't the problem. The culture surrounding why they play them so much is. |
|
|
|
Post by dcohio on Apr 15, 2012 19:59:38 GMT -6
That's a tough deal. I don't know what to tell you. We have a similar situation but it's not a school wide thing. Drugs are school wide, and I'm not going to pretend that my kids don't smoke - but I can say if they do, I don't hear about it. I am easily one of the more popular teachers, if they were doing it openly, I would know about it.
The only thing I can tell you is, sometimes you got to be the pitbull in the dog fight - make em or break em. I've broken quite a few of them and they walk by me everyday in the hall, they don't look at me, they chuckle as they walk by and they make their comments and just laugh at them and say "you can drink and smoke your entire life, you can only play football in HS."
and sometimes if I see them cornering one of my players I'll walk into the group and confront the situation. I've always got some thing extremely sarcastic and rude but true to say to them. - a gift from my mother.
|
|
|
|
Post by ajreaper on Apr 16, 2012 11:10:42 GMT -6
If your goal is to get wasted every weekend how hard is it to fail? Its not difficult to understand the "why" behind this attitude what's difficult to understand is the culture at home that creates and accepts that line of thought.
|
|
|
|
Post by cnunley on Apr 16, 2012 11:30:35 GMT -6
This "Try Hard" thing has been going on at my current school for a couple of years now. I thought we were the only ones.
I just don't understand how it's ok to make fun of people who are making something out of themselves.
I teach PE. I have kids who refuse to participate/dress out everyday. Straight "0's" across the board. There's not enough ISS or Detentions to make them care. So they Fail. And the parents are ok with that.
Called a parent EARLY in the year. Here's how that conversation went.
"Ma'am...this is your childs PE teacher. Your child has not dressed out a single day this six weeks and has refused to participate at all. It is too late for them to recover for this six weeks but I wanted to alert you so they can change their behavior and get back on track for the remainder of the year..............(very long pause then finally says) "...that it?"
Needless to say this students behavior never changed a bit. Has failed every 6 weeks and is on track to be the worst year long grade I've ever seen.
Maybe I'm reading to much into it and hopefully I am not offending anyone on here, but I firmly believe that if you get anything below a "B" in PE class, you are going to be a worthless citizen.
|
|
JMC
Sophomore Member
Posts: 108
|
Post by JMC on Apr 16, 2012 11:34:44 GMT -6
I blame the parents and the entitlement generation. Kids do not want to work at anything anymore for the most part and their parents are giving them everything. Then when a kid does make a mistake their parents try and protect them or cover it up. The parents are not holding their kids accountable and are not letting others as well. As a society we see it more and more. Social security checks, kids being born into situations where they were born so that the size of the government check would increase. Kids raising themselves.
It is all very bad. Looking at the 70s generation, the parents held their kids accountable. Sure there were drug movies, but kids knew how far they could go before dad put his foot in their rear. How many kids grow up in homes where there is no dad, and mom can't control them.
|
|
|
|
Post by olcoach53 on Apr 16, 2012 12:11:37 GMT -6
I believe Nike made a shirt that sums it up.
"Lazy but Talented"
|
|
|
|
Post by dhooper on Apr 16, 2012 12:21:35 GMT -6
Sad to hear, Its TV, & Movies promoting this crap. Also parents who are permitting this behavior. It's sad how times have change in just the past ten yrs.
|
|
|
|
Post by airman on Apr 16, 2012 14:16:53 GMT -6
I feel bad for kids these days to be honest. every institution which used to bring stability to society has been cause abusing their power. Government, Churches, Public Schools, The Police have all lied to cover up their sins and been exposed for it. The last I do not now how man Presidents have been caught in lies. If the guy who runs the country can lie and get away with it kids think they can do the same.
There is no absolute truths anymore. we now live in a moral relativist society where the truth is many different shades of gray.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachiminime on Apr 16, 2012 16:44:01 GMT -6
we have a similar situation where the kids are really into smoking weed and partying. I think it is cyclic in grades and we have been going one good grade one bad. We have managed to stay afloat depite some of the problems that this behavior . Just stick to it, let the good kids or the kids that are doing what is expected of them be the leaders, do not let any of these other kids get any accolades.
|
|
|
|
Post by dcohio on Apr 16, 2012 20:59:45 GMT -6
apathy is alive and well no doubt.
Just had a conversation with a sophomore today. I texted him "You have 3 Fs right now. Geometry, Biology and History. You are back on the wrong path. Hanging with dopers, not doing your homework, showing up late for baseball. Doing exactly what you were before. I don't want to let you go but you gotta get your chit together or I will. These cats aren't your friends."
He caught me after school with one of the guys who is the problem and started into his "rationale/excuses" - and I snapped on him and said "WTF ever. Get out of my face with all that BS. I've been there. Don't forget I've been to your house. I know your mom is a crack head, I know she lives in the drug house. I know EXACTLY what I'm seeing in you, and why so don't treat me like I'm freakin stupid." and walked away from him.
He texted me about 9 pm and said "I'm sorry coach. You're right. I know I need to get my chit together and stop hangin with Jimmy and Johnny, they ain't gonna do nothin but keep me here and I don't want that. I'll straighten back up."
I responded "I don't want to hear it, I want to see it."
At our school it's a smaller group that tries to eat at everyone else - they don't like me very well.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Apr 17, 2012 8:14:59 GMT -6
I coach/teach on a Native reservation where the drug and alcohol abuse are through the roof. But, there isn't much point in getting into that as I'll be writing a manifesto..
I'm a young'en compared to a lot of guys on the board (31) but I have seen a drastic increase in how accepted weed has become in our country. There is a definite sway in the societal view on that particular drug at this point because of the laws that have been enacted recently. I'm not going to get into an argument about my views on said law but that has been my take on it.
I do think that this wondrous technological age we live in is having a huge impact. The dissemination of information is ridiculous and it seems like parents are totally oblivious to the effects of the social networking sites. I can't tell you how many times I have seen former students of mine posting pictures of weed and booze all over the internet; pics taken while they were in high school. The rest of the community sees these pics, they don't do anything about it and it becomes even more acceptable.
The kids can also get their hands on all kinds of media that condones and shows the abuse of drugs and booze via the internet. Hell, I hollered at my fiancee because my soon-to-be stepson posted some nasty rap video on his Facebook page that was basically talking about boozing, drugging and sex. And, I do mean NASTY. I told her to make him take it down because if I had to do it, the boy would get a very, very unpleasant talk.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Apr 17, 2012 9:38:43 GMT -6
Is it really that bad? Are there NO good kids? Is this problem more pronounced at small schools? I think so. A group of 10 idiots in a school of 2,500 can't do any damage. The same group can be seriously detrimental to a smaller school especially if they're "popular". Their crap spreads like cancer. We've got a couple of seniors right now that are on their way to a lifetime of legal issues because of their drinking and drugging. You can see the effect they have had on the rest of their class and a lot of the juniors on the report cards. The kids that have started hanging out with them are flunking out of school or coming close to it. |
|
rsmith627
Junior Member
What does it take to get a snow day around here!?!?!
Posts: 447
|
Post by rsmith627 on Apr 17, 2012 11:46:42 GMT -6
I do think that this wondrous technological age we live in is having a huge impact. The dissemination of information is ridiculous and it seems like parents are totally oblivious to the effects of the social networking sites. I can't tell you how many times I have seen former students of mine posting pictures of weed and booze all over the internet; pics taken while they were in high school. The rest of the community sees these pics, they don't do anything about it and it becomes even more acceptable. This. You only have a couple of years on me. Hopefully as we go forward our generation will do a better job of keeping up on what our kids have access to, thus making us better able to monitor them. I think it helps that we at our age, and even some of the older crowd, are aware of and using some of the same social media that they are. |
|
|
|
Post by dcohio on Apr 17, 2012 20:52:31 GMT -6
double post - i've picked up stutter
|
|
|
|
Post by dcohio on Apr 17, 2012 21:10:24 GMT -6
Is it really that bad? Are there NO good kids? Is this problem more pronounced at small schools? I think so. A group of 10 idiots in a school of 2,500 can't do any damage. The same group can be seriously detrimental to a smaller school especially if they're "popular". Their crap spreads like cancer. We've got a couple of seniors right now that are on their way to a lifetime of legal issues because of their drinking and drugging. You can see the effect they have had on the rest of their class and a lot of the juniors on the report cards. The kids that have started hanging out with them are flunking out of school or coming close to it. You've got to make them unpopular. I just had a similar senior group. I created the riff during the season between the seniors and the underclassmen and I haven't let up and won't let up until they walk out our doors. I point out their flaws anytime any of our players say ANYTHING positive about them in a football sense. The kids who are like that are basically bullies trying to use peer pressure/seem cool...well I can be a bully too. I'll confront my kids right in front of them. "Hey James...WHAT ARE YOU DOING hanging around these cats? You know they ain't goin no where. Half of them were suppose to graduate last year, and aren't going to graduate this year. If you want on the 6 year HS plan this is the crew to run with, but they ain't your friends, they trying to get you to be smoked up and a to be a failure just like they are so they'll have a ride to the welfare office." Yea that gets me cussed at and called names or whatever. I just laugh at them and smile. Somehow you gotta make something else seem more "cool" than those guys. I mean chit - they are 15-20 year old kids who are smoked up...how hard is it to out smart those guys? Their life experiences are smokin weed and maybe 15 seconds of sex. I agree they can do some damage but you've first got to confront it and then be vigilant on them. |
|
dc207
Junior Member
Posts: 394
|
Post by dc207 on Apr 17, 2012 23:27:30 GMT -6
I have been teaching and coaching at my current school now for 11 years. It used to be a proud athletic tradition school. (5 conf championships, 3 section finals in a 7 year span) We have fallen into a culture of boozers and losers. AD is averaging 40+ alcohol violations a year with athletes (small school - 424 9-12). Kids don't care, they now have made t-shirts that say "weakened warriors" with a keg of beer on the front and a stupid quote on the back about getting messed up every weekend. They do not wear them to school but have seen them around town. They even have a weekend warriors Facebook page! Now the kids who do care and want to do well are getting called out and made fun of! They call them "Try Hards" or PAM'S (practice all-Americans). So it's not cool to do well, care and want to be good. Is anyone else seeing crap like this? Or is this just a place I need to get my kids as far away as possible? I have stepped down as head coach because I can no longer coach kids and parents who do not care. I am going to read the rest of the thread, because it is late, I'm interested, and my school assignment isn't very interesting. As far as crap like this goes (the underlined paragraph), we have been there. Honestly, we sort of faced this when we took over a once very proud football program in 2005. After a year of taking a beating, we first started to see improvements in our JV team. Those kids had to put up with that {censored}, and you know what I did as the JV coach the next year? Honestly, I told our kids to say," Meet me on the field". I knew it would lead to some arguments, and it did. We had two JV kids get suspended for beating wiseass kids down in school. I didn't mind (inwardly), but outwardly I obviously cautioned our kids against getting drawn in to that. However, I was a part of it perhaps: everyday I tried to foster the, "Nobody believes in you except the people out here right now. Those other people who criticize COULDN'T DO THIS, and they won't be there when YOU turn this program around. YOU are going to turn this around, not me, not anybody else. And you are going to do it because you outhit people. Because when it comes to a fight, nobody is going to beat you unless you let them". It worked: those kids (freshman and sophomores in like 2006-07 school year) became like a pack of wild animals on the field. They just loved to fight and outhit people because that's what we did everyday in practice. Some of it was certainly already there, but we made a conscious effort to go at it everyday in practice (helped having 50-plus kids on JV). We fought in practice, literally we averaged like two fights a week because we just hit everyday. We had to. We nearly fought the varsity soccer team one Wednesday because we had just gone through our pre-gameday practice (with pads on unfortunately) then had our starting JV defense get called over to help the varsity offense get a look against a 4-4. Well, the varsity soccer kids cross in front of us as we are going in to the locker room and our kids moved them out of the way. I just stood there watching. I WANTED our kids to gain some of that attitude back that we used to have. Seeing our kids stand up to the older kids felt good because it was another moment (there were plenty on the field) when you saw that they might fight each other in practice, but they fight together when they are supposed to. One of our ILB's grabbed a soccer ball from some wiseass kid, and punted it over some fence. I was tripping. (Made him run but inwardly I thought, "Good".) Yes, I know, we sound like we were out of control: we wanted to be right on the line of out of control. We were REACTING to the pussification of a once proud football program, and if that meant walking the line between being a little out of control then that's what it meant. We figured we had one shot at turning this thing around, and weren't going to let the 'weekend warrior' type kids rule the school anymore: if one of our kids got in to a fight, then all of our kids would back him up. I loved that. By the end of the season, we would always win the battle of who was more physical. We didn't win every game on JV that year but the next two seasons that group of kids went on to post back-to-back winning seasons at the varsity level for the first time in like 8 years for our program. So, sorry for long post. Guess my 'advice' would be: go at it hard, "make" your team tough whenever you can, and don't back down from anybody. Whether they are wearing another team's jersey or someone who lives right down the street from you. |
|
