|
|
Post by jackedup on Nov 1, 2005 18:46:47 GMT -6
Coaches,
How many of you encourage your players to run track in the off season? I'm just curious because I'm going to be taking over the track program and am recruiting my juniors from the football team to run with me. I think it would be extremely beneficial but last year my HC told the kids not to. Opinions....
|
|
|
|
Post by coachjd on Nov 2, 2005 5:15:05 GMT -6
We tell all of our kids that if they are not in a position to make the baseball, tennis or golf teams you need to go out for track in the spring. We get 15-20 kids each spring who are not out for track because they like track. They are out to lift, run, plyo's, agilities, etc... We do not have spring ball in Minnesota, so this is our way to get the kids who are not out for a sport to continue to workout and improve.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachcalande on Nov 2, 2005 6:46:47 GMT -6
get em to run track, but keep em lifting.
|
|
|
|
Post by 53defense on Nov 2, 2005 8:27:26 GMT -6
We stress having all of the kids joining track. We tell the kids that there is an art to running and we might not be able to increase the frequency of their stride but we can improve the length of their stride and that will make them faster and add to our overall team speed. We even have a formula for speed. Frequency of stride times the distance of stride will equal how fast you run.
|
|
|
|
Post by brophy on Nov 2, 2005 8:40:37 GMT -6
EVERYONE needs to be out for track (what we preach)... They can run track but still lift.
During the Field events (practices), you can take your throwers and work Oline stuff....
You'd be working SPEED and ACCELERATION during your off-season lifting during this period, anyway....
Baseball and Basketball are what kill us - both don't really encourage lifting that much and take up waaay too much time
|
|
|
|
Post by spreadattack on Nov 2, 2005 9:17:33 GMT -6
I totally agree that track is key for these kids. It's important to be realistic with many of these kids. Sure, you'd like them to put in some kind of "all-football" workouts throughout the year, and they should be working speed etc on their own but track will force them to work and run every single day. It is important to keep the lifting up as well.
Also, at least if they are skill guys, I have always said that they can't just do high-jump, etc. It defeats the purpose if your kids are just going out and doing 10 jumps and going home when the point was to make them run, etc. Obviously we encourage them to do the shorter events--it doesn't really help us if our football players are running the two mile...
Brophy, I envy you, I don't think any track coaches I've been around (even some that coached football too!) would appreciate us breaking out in OLine drills during track practice!
|
|
|
|
Post by brophy on Nov 2, 2005 9:28:20 GMT -6
Brophy, I envy you, I don't think any track coaches I've been around (even some that coached football too!) would appreciate us breaking out in OLine drills during track practice! get your Football guys on the track staff....heh heh eh.... |
|
|
|
Post by coachdawhip on Nov 2, 2005 11:39:56 GMT -6
Because our Assitant Head Coach is the Head Track Coach, all players not in a spring sport must run-track, and we make them hit the weight room as well.
|
|
|
|
Post by bulldog on Nov 2, 2005 11:54:04 GMT -6
I heard Boyd Epley speak at a clinic and he does not recommend football players run track. His theory is that track is aerobic exercise and does not help football players. He stresses that football players should train in the anaerobic realm. One person asked him about football players running track and he said something like, 'well, have your players run track if you want skinny football players'. He was especially critical of programs that let players run track, but didn't get them to lift at the same time. BTW - Boyd Epley is the Strength and Conditioning guy from Nebraska. His research is outstanding and was the obvious base for his teachings. As I remember his website is www.huskerpower.com. Football players don't need to run track to get agility, plyos, or speed work. We hold an off-season lifting and conditioning program that emphasizes core strength, lifting, and speed work. |
|
|
|
Post by brophy on Nov 2, 2005 11:59:03 GMT -6
Boyd is referencing long-distance events. Give me four guys that ran the 4x100 last year, and I'll show you a threatening backfield
SPRINTING is an anaerobic, fast-twitch, explosive movement. I would think you'd want your running back for next year competing in the 100 meter in the Spring.
I'd agree that if you're running 800s or 1600s it becomes an aerobic exercise. But much of the 4x400, 4x100, field events are geared toward building explosiveness in the athlete.
A lot of OUR track training is based around PLYOS anyway.... it all depends on what your program is like. All I can talk on is what I've seen. Different strokes for different folks.
Our players lift 3 times a week in season, 4 times out of season.
Hey, I used to be a big fan of Husker Power in the 90's when they were on a roll....WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED?!?!
I visit U of I every year and check out what S&C Coach Chris Doyle is cooking up...
|
|
|
|
Post by coachjd on Nov 2, 2005 12:30:45 GMT -6
Our kids are jumpers, sprinters and throwers. We lift them 3 days a week in-season and do a variety of accelleration drills, jump training, med-balls, hip mobility drills, agility drills during our track practice. I will not let a football player run anything longer than a 400 in a meet or practice. We focus all of our sprint training between 50 and 200 meters if at all possible.
The throwers and jumpers will work run 5-30 meter sprints during their work outs along with the stadium stairs, etc... We have been pretty successful getting kids stronger and quicker by getting kids out for track.
|
|
|
|
Post by tog on Nov 2, 2005 12:35:35 GMT -6
we support track and powerlifting like you wouldn't beleive
|
|
|
|
Post by bulldog on Nov 2, 2005 14:50:44 GMT -6
Why don't college football players run track? (In general). There must be a good reason. Spring Football? Maybe. Maybe there is another reason.
I understand that there will be different opinions. I made my post because I saw a lot of bandwagon talk with no differing opinions. Track might benefit a few of the skill players. Maybe. Or maybe they could get better workouts elsewhere. Workouts that are targetted to football and not track.
Linear acceleration is only part of the problem with football - and it is the sole objective of track. Run from Point A to Point B in straight/circular path. Football is not played linear unless there is a break away. Football stresses LATERAL movement, which track does nothing to train.
Anyway, Epley has a lot of data from testing of real athletes (from all of Nebraska's sports). His opinions were formed from research and testing. I found his arguments compelling and supported by data. I have only read opinions in this thread that seem to be unsupported by data and contrary to the opinions of one of the top practicioners in his field. I was pretty attentive at the Epley clinic talk and he was NOT referring solely to distance events.
|
|
|
|
Post by brophy on Nov 2, 2005 15:10:13 GMT -6
I tell you...IF we could get our athletes to solely focus on football in the Spring & Summer, I'd buy that brand.
I don't think HS track is a detriment to our athletes and on the contrary....FOR US, it keeps our kids out of trouble. Lord knows if OUR kids weren't in track, we'd have some serious discipline issues to deal with in the Fall. Winning in Track helped our kids maintain a winning attitude in the Fall, and it kept them all working together.
I agree with you there. What about Soccer, though? That is a early competitor to Track - it focusses a lot of the "football movements", but the kids run and run and run, rather explosively though.
I agree with Epley on his research - the guy was a pioneer in S&C. I appreciate the differing opinion, as well. I am not going to dispute that guy. He also, IMO, has to justify his existence as the S&C program as the only way to build athletes - in the weight room.
Getting back to the original thread - We encourage our athletes to be involved in as many sports as possible. We understand we will be unable to disuade kids from participating in other sports, and I'd be pretty upset (have been) if the Basketball / Soccer / Baseball coach DEMANDS his kids not play football...that's just wrong, IMO - these are 15- 17 year old kids - this isn't Europe and we're not trying to grow Olympic athletes.
Doing agilities and plyos and weight training can get a little tiresome if that's all you do for 9 months out of the year as a kid. Some kids can do that - I wouldn't have been able to maintain a fresh focus doing that.
A lot of great football players were also great wrestlers - don't see many doing it in college. Julius Peppers & Tony Gonzalez are great NFL players that played basketball in college- but they are not great players because they played basketball in the off-season. I don't see how Basketball became a detriment to them.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachjd on Nov 2, 2005 15:34:38 GMT -6
Div. I football programs have 2-5 strength coaches who work their athletes out in the weight room year around. Most schools also have strength coaches in charge of speed, agility and quickness aspect of their training. They don't need to go out for track, wrestling, etc... Ohio State hired a former olympic sprinter to just work with the football team with running mechanics and speed development.
|
|
|
|
Post by tog on Nov 2, 2005 15:36:11 GMT -6
track and lifting is about the best way to get a 5.1 kid to a 4.8
|
|
|
|
Post by bulldog on Nov 2, 2005 15:51:05 GMT -6
I guess we just have a different program and a different focus. Football is year-round out here, which I know is different than other places. Most of the good high school programs have a strength and conditioning class that players are required to attend (usually first thing in the AM). This class is in session both semesters.
We also hold 'spring' football starting in March/April, where the kids have after-school sessions (nothing other than a ball). We install our offense and defense in the spring. So, we don't really have to have our kids run track to stay out of trouble. We grade-check them in the off-season. If they cause a problem - no matter what time of year - we discipline them immediately (we don't punish players in the fall for infractions they commit in the spring). They understand that their actions have consequences since they have seen and heard about other kids getting swift, tough and uniform punishment.
In the summer, we go to contact camp(s) and practice (only a ball). Some programs ignore the rules and have full contact, pads and bags year-round.
Soccer is held at the same time as football, so we don't have that issue. In my opinion, soccer is like track or baseball when it comes to training football players. Soccer is an aerobic exercise. You run and run and run. Football has rest periods between plays. Football stresses lateral movement. I don't know of another sport (except maybe rugby) that works football skills.
Track could be a detriment to football players for the reasons that I mentioned (primarily weight loss and the loss of ability to establish muscle mass). Same thing for basketball. And I'm not talking about a few exceptional athletes or skill players. I'm talking about the bulk of football players. The ones that are not already great athletes with exceptional bodies.
There are a lot of team building exercises that can supplement your off-season work without running track . . .
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree regarding the usefullness of running track.
|
|
|
|
Post by tog on Nov 2, 2005 15:53:40 GMT -6
It's all good bulldog. I wish it would be football and football only. That would be nice.
|
|
|
|
Post by brophy on Nov 2, 2005 15:55:51 GMT -6
wow.....nice deal.....IF we had a system set up like that - I'm on the board with you. You guys are VERY FORTUNATE to be able to work with your athletes like that.
We are only allowed 'unlimited' contact with our kids near the end of July.....from November until then, we are only "allowed" to hold "clinics" or "camps".
I agree track could be a detriment if you have the alternative - with the way we are set up here in the MidWest, we don't have any other option.
I have to agree - IF we could lock our players down to just football, we'd be great. The atrophy experienced during track & basketball season really hurt us this year.
"Usefulness" for us is choosing the greater of two evils = 'nothing' or organized athletics.
|
|
|
|
Post by toprowguy on Nov 3, 2005 20:44:43 GMT -6
You have to get your staff working for the other sports so you can get your players lifting and running all the time.
At our school we have a problem with our basketball and baseball coach not letting players lift during the season. Our kidds build up their strength during their oof season then lose it during basketball or baseball.
|
|
|
|
Post by tye2021 on Nov 8, 2005 16:25:25 GMT -6
When I was in school my JR year I ran track jus to stay in shape for football. Went from a 4.5 to a 4.3 40!
|
|
|
|
Post by goldenbear76 on Nov 8, 2005 18:52:58 GMT -6
Actually, I would encourage my lineman to play basketball, then Track. Basketball works your agility and its fun, and track you can use as weight training. The only thing with basketball that scares off coaches is the injuries that can be sustained. But if you want your lineman to have quick feet, tell em to try out. Most of my lineman are wrestlers though, so I don't have the problem of "lazy slogs".
|
|
|
|
Post by Coach Huey on Nov 8, 2005 20:22:44 GMT -6
you really can't coach speed, right?
but, if you can get some technique work done then they'll improve. also, they are getting into better shape for the speed activities involved in football. and, don't forget that they are out there competing == with themselves and other runners.
our last opponent had several, several, several track championship banners hanging all over their stadium. i saw them and told some of our coaches there, "don't have to watch film to see that these guys are good in football"
|
|
|
|
Post by killer51 on Nov 9, 2005 11:09:50 GMT -6
Our kids are also highly "encouraged" to do track if they are not involved in another spring sport. I am the Head Boys Track coach and D-ccrdinator so I have a pretty good influence on our boys. THe first things we do everyday during track practice after stretching and form running is we lift. We gear our lifting program so that we do not have to let up the days before meets. We also give the boys a little by having active rest days (7v7) on days after meets. When we incorporated our active rest day that helped increase the number of kids we had out. Last year we had all 3 of our QBs on the track team and our record breaking 4x100 team was our starting backfield in our double slot option attack. Our throwers and jumpers do the same speed workout that the sprinters do everyday. It helps that I have 5 football assistants as my track staff.
|
|
|
|
Post by ogie4 on Nov 10, 2005 9:54:51 GMT -6
Track reinforces and adds to your off-season program. An important part of the football program.
|
|
