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Post by coachcb on Jan 19, 2011 19:44:53 GMT -6
I am going to be stuck in an difficult situation next year. We were very low on numbers this year and our "Rudy" got a lot of playing time. He's a sophomore (junior next year) that practices and plays hard but is very undersized, slow and weak.
He had a pretty good year but it was very polar. He picked up 17 tackles from his safety spot in one game this last year. But, he's extremely slow; he gave up quite a few scores in coverage because he just doesn't match up.
I lost several solid guys to injury and to ineligibility (90 day transfer rules) this last year and they will be back out. All of these guys are far better athletes than "Rudy" and, if we want a chance at winning, need the starting nod.
But, I just don't know if I can do that to the kid. We preach hard work and dedication and he's the epitome of that philosophy. He out-works everyone on that team (and they're not lazy) and I feel like he deserves a place at the table.
So, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. We've got to get our best guys out on the field and if these other players out-perform him we need to get them more turns. And, "if" is being pleasant; I've got a few guys coming back that are some of the better athletes in the conference. BUT, I feel like I am compromising the philosophy of our program if I don't seriously consider starting "Rudy". Times were tough when he was starting and he took on the challenge, kept his chin up and played tough.
"Rudy" is getting after it in his Strength and Conditioning class but he's still very small, slow and weak.. The other guys are playing basketball and taking weight training and I don't see him over taking them.
Advice?
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Post by emptybackfield on Jan 19, 2011 19:55:41 GMT -6
Tough call and like you said, as a coach you hate to not reward the player for his hard work. However, my old high school coach once told me when I had outworked another kid for the starting QB job but ended up as a backup because he was just a better athlete than me at the time, "unfortunately, genetics play a role in high school football."
We say we're about teaching life lessons in this deal, right? Unfortunately, working your dick off doesn't guarantee you're going to be the best and win a spot/get a job, etc.
I would have him on every special team, and have him learn a few different spots. If there is an injury, you have someone you trust to get lined up right, etc. I believe with all my heart that good things happen to kids that work very hard, and he'll find a nice niche on your team.
Like I said, it sucks balls to have to look the kid in the eye and tell him he's just not good enough. Good luck with that, but if it's the right thing for your team then you have to do it.
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Post by silkyice on Jan 19, 2011 20:15:18 GMT -6
Rudy worked his tail off to EARN a spot. Not be given one. If this kid truly is a Rudy, he will understand.
If this kid truly is a Rudy, he will then find a way that will force you to play him. He has experience now, and he has another off season to get improve.
If he feels that he is just given his spot, he might actually stop working as hard, and then you have a real problem.
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Post by jericson on Jan 19, 2011 20:25:48 GMT -6
Are there any other positions where he might be better suited to play?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2011 20:29:07 GMT -6
Without knowing his size and measureables, maybe an inside LB or DE? He must have some tackling ability if he picked up 17 in a game. Also, have him embrace a special teams captain role and make sure he's in a position to succeed on every special team?
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Post by coachcb on Jan 19, 2011 20:50:51 GMT -6
He's a safety for us. He doesn't have the attributes to play inside the box. He picks up a fair amount of tackles because the front funnels things his way. They were open field tackles; he's very coachable and knows the fundamentals in that situation. But, he does so only after the runner picks up 10 yards; he's friggin slow. We were terrible on defense and that's a long story; check out the General Defensive board for the details. These guys that are coming back would be stopping the runner at 5 yards..
It just sucks because he's kind of become the "beckon of hope" in terms of the school's attitude towards football. The general thought is that if we can coach this kid up and have him perform as well as he did that the coaching is good and the program is on the right track. Now, I'm not thumping my chest on that one or being arrogant. Those are the sentiments coming out of the student body and the administration.
The kid really is our Rudy; he's a source of pride and inspiration for the program and that is what is killing me.
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Post by phantom on Jan 19, 2011 20:59:22 GMT -6
I am going to be stuck in an difficult situation next year. We were very low on numbers this year and our "Rudy" got a lot of playing time. He's a sophomore (junior next year) that practices and plays hard but is very undersized, slow and weak. He had a pretty good year but it was very polar. He picked up 17 tackles from his safety spot in one game this last year. But, he's extremely slow; he gave up quite a few scores in coverage because he just doesn't match up. I lost several solid guys to injury and to ineligibility (90 day transfer rules) this last year and they will be back out. All of these guys are far better athletes than "Rudy" and, if we want a chance at winning, need the starting nod. But, I just don't know if I can do that to the kid. We preach hard work and dedication and he's the epitome of that philosophy. He out-works everyone on that team (and they're not lazy) and I feel like he deserves a place at the table. So, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. We've got to get our best guys out on the field and if these other players out-perform him we need to get them more turns. And, "if" is being pleasant; I've got a few guys coming back that are some of the better athletes in the conference. BUT, I feel like I am compromising the philosophy of our program if I don't seriously consider starting "Rudy". Times were tough when he was starting and he took on the challenge, kept his chin up and played tough. "Rudy" is getting after it in his Strength and Conditioning class but he's still very small, slow and weak.. The other guys are playing basketball and taking weight training and I don't see him over taking them. Advice? Best players play. Period. As others have said, working hard just earns you an opportunity. It's not a guarantee of anything.
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Post by coachklee on Jan 19, 2011 21:06:05 GMT -6
Just my opinion, but you clearly are indicating that "Rudy" is a kid you can count on. Our program slogan is "Count On Me" and in my short coaching career (8 years now) I've concluded that this is the most important factor at the high school level. There has to be some way you can give him a legitimate shot.
How small is he and how does his size compare with your competition? All of my 8 years have come at two class C size schools (300 kids & 400 kids) and I have seen some very undersized kids contribute in the defensive front just because they were tough, learned quick and understood their role/assignment.
Are the other kids that will likely play in front of him seniors or fellow juniors? I would think this type of kid would understand this for a season and keep working.
Just give him the chance to contribute somewhere...there has to be some drills that can let you match up "Rudy" vs. your the guys with better measurables. I'm not saying that he automatically gets the chance to be on the playing field, but explain to him that he will get his chance on the practice field and in drills. Best of luck! I don't envy your decision coach.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 19, 2011 22:10:04 GMT -6
Just my opinion, but you clearly are indicating that "Rudy" is a kid you can count on. Our program slogan is "Count On Me" and in my short coaching career (8 years now) I've concluded that this is the most important factor at the high school level. There has to be some way you can give him a legitimate shot. How small is he and how does his size compare with your competition? All of my 8 years have come at two class C size schools (300 kids & 400 kids) and I have seen some very undersized kids contribute in the defensive front just because they were tough, learned quick and understood their role/assignment. Are the other kids that will likely play in front of him seniors or fellow juniors? I would think this type of kid would understand this for a season and keep working. Just give him the chance to contribute somewhere...there has to be some drills that can let you match up "Rudy" vs. your the guys with better measurables. I'm not saying that he automatically gets the chance to be on the playing field, but explain to him that he will get his chance on the practice field and in drills. Best of luck! I don't envy your decision coach. He doesn't match up well, at all. We're in the toughest conference in the state; a lot of big, strong, athletic kids. He's fundamentally sound in everything he does but struggles because of his lack of ability. It's just going to be tough because I know that we've to get our best out there and I need to find a way to get him as much time on the field as I can without risking a loss. He'll get every possible chance to continue to earn his spot.
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Post by Yash on Jan 19, 2011 22:14:59 GMT -6
Don't decide right now. Injuries happen, spots open up. Can he play an outside backer? Our weak side backer was always our kid who was too slow to get reversed, too smart to get screened and didn't have to take on huge tightends and fullbacks all day. Granted I live in Wisconsin where the fullback hasn't gone the way of the dinosaur yet.
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Post by phantom on Jan 19, 2011 22:44:47 GMT -6
Just my opinion, but you clearly are indicating that "Rudy" is a kid you can count on. Our program slogan is "Count On Me" and in my short coaching career (8 years now) I've concluded that this is the most important factor at the high school level. There has to be some way you can give him a legitimate shot. How small is he and how does his size compare with your competition? All of my 8 years have come at two class C size schools (300 kids & 400 kids) and I have seen some very undersized kids contribute in the defensive front just because they were tough, learned quick and understood their role/assignment. Are the other kids that will likely play in front of him seniors or fellow juniors? I would think this type of kid would understand this for a season and keep working. Just give him the chance to contribute somewhere...there has to be some drills that can let you match up "Rudy" vs. your the guys with better measurables. I'm not saying that he automatically gets the chance to be on the playing field, but explain to him that he will get his chance on the practice field and in drills. Best of luck! I don't envy your decision coach. He doesn't match up well, at all. We're in the toughest conference in the state; a lot of big, strong, athletic kids. He's fundamentally sound in everything he does but struggles because of his lack of ability. It's just going to be tough because I know that we've to get our best out there and I need to find a way to get him as much time on the field as I can without risking a loss. He'll get every possible chance to continue to earn his spot. And he should. Best players may play but right now you have no proof that the other guys are better. If he keeps it up he should get first crack at the job. If somebody else beats him out so be it but that's when you start practice. There's no reason to do anything right now. Just be ready to make the move when it's evident that it's time.
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Post by hamerhead on Jan 20, 2011 0:17:05 GMT -6
Sounds like a special teams captain to me.
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Post by superpower on Jan 20, 2011 5:41:30 GMT -6
If Rudy starts just because of his work ethic/attitude, how long will it be before the players who are better than he is (and give the team a better chance to win) develop a bad attitude? Do what is best for the team.
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Post by coachdubyah on Jan 20, 2011 7:05:02 GMT -6
Sounds like a special teams captain to me. Put him on special teams. Make him a safety on special teams. You can structure your kicking units for him to be the safety or contain player. On return units, all he has to do is block. Give him a few snaps here and there on D, but at the end of the day the best must play.
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Post by leighty on Jan 20, 2011 7:38:09 GMT -6
Do what is best for the team. I agree with this. If the kid's a liability then I don't know how you can rationalize giving him a position if there are better players.
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Post by coachjd on Jan 20, 2011 7:46:03 GMT -6
Football is an amazing game. You can find a role for most kids. It may not be the same role he had last season. If you are preaching hard work pays off then find a place for him to contribute to the team. It may not be his starting safety spot, oh well. Best kids play, but if you change personnel on goalline or short yardage and you want to roll a safety up, or special teams captain as mentioned before. There are places to put these kids.
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Post by groundchuck on Jan 20, 2011 8:09:40 GMT -6
Yep. I was gonna say that too. YOu can probably find a roll for that kid. IT might not be the same spot as the year before but you can probably find him a spot.
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Post by mhcoach on Jan 20, 2011 8:18:58 GMT -6
Ok, I must be missing something here. Rudy is a sophomore, rising junior, who started at FS due to lack of numbers. In 1 game he made 17 tackles, being small, slow & weak. This season your numbers are up & have several athletes. So you are worried Rudy won't play. Simple answer is players play. Rudy sounds like a player, he will develop over the next 6 month's. Don't think he will be the same boy he was. Granted he won't grow 6" & put on 50lbs of muscle, but he will definitely grow & change.
I think you have more holes to fill on D then just worrying about Rudy. Unless you were in Robber coverage all game, the FS making 17 tackles is a little scary. If Rudy works as hard as you say I'm sure he can find a spot to play.
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Post by blb on Jan 20, 2011 8:35:10 GMT -6
If you tell Team "Best Players Play" and "We Play to Win", then they see you artificially getting PT for kids just because - you will lose them.
Too many kids are happy just to start (rather than reaching their true potential, striving to be All-League, etc.) or even just be on the squad already.
Football is a meritocracy, or should be. Kids will appreciate that basic honesty more than you trying to reward a kid merely because he works hard and did a nice job in difficult situation as JV.
And - DBs that play better moving forward ("17 tackles...in one game") than backward ("gave up quite a few scores") are bad for coaches' job security.
Maybe by the time he's a Senior he will have developed further and his hard work will pay off in a regular role or at least more PT.
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Post by CoachCP on Jan 20, 2011 8:39:00 GMT -6
If it becomes bad, you can always play him on every special team. Put him in the spot to be successful. If he's a Rudy, he's probably high motor. Put him in a spot to be successful where his leadership can still be highlighted (maybe trying to block punts, a wing back on field goal, the personal protector on punt, ect). And everytime he makes a big play, point it out. That way, the kids will understand he is a major player, and he will be getting the respect he deserves.
If he's lifting and everything, hopefully by his senior year he'll be quick enough to play somewhere consistently.
Maybe you can use him as a wide receiver in blocking situations? Highlight his blocks, ect. Throw him a quick pass every once in a blue moon to keep the defense honest.
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Post by blb on Jan 20, 2011 8:51:42 GMT -6
The OP said "Rudy" is "undersized, slow, and weak."
So, I don't understand why so many are recommending using him on Special Teams.
We play our best players in the Kicking Game, or at least kids that can Run and Hit. Doesn't sound like "Rudy."
I don't want to lose a game trying to get a kid his letter just because he has perfect off-season attendance, is in NHS, or goes to church twice on Sundays.
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Post by gdn56 on Jan 20, 2011 9:23:14 GMT -6
The OP said "Rudy" is "undersized, slow, and weak." So, I don't understand why so many are recommending using him on Special Teams. We play our best players in the Kicking Game, or at least kids that can Run and Hit. Doesn't sound like "Rudy." I don't want to lose a game trying to get a kid his letter just because he has perfect off-season attendance, is in NHS, or goes to church twice on Sundays. That kept jumping out at me as I read this thread. In mean, is he somehow less likely to get you scorched in the kicking game?? I would evaluate it just like any other position battle. If another player is far and away better, he plays. If the two were very close, I would probably go with Rudy.
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celtic
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Post by celtic on Jan 20, 2011 9:28:53 GMT -6
Give him a chance as the starter when you begin practice. If he gets beat out, he gets beat out. My experience has been that when a kid is getting beat out, he knows it. And if it's going to be as dramatic a difference as you seem to think, then what will Rudy be able to say?
Lay it out there for him. In our pre season player/parent meeting, we lay out our philosophy on playing time. Goes something like this. Whether you're a freshman or a senior, you will never practice all week and not compete in a game. On Friday nights, the kids who give us the best chance to win will be on the field. Period. Each one of our freshmen will see at least a quarter of action in the freshman game. Sophomores, juniors and even seniors who aren't Friday night guys will play in the JV game. Determination is made by the coaching staff. Period. If parents want to come in and talk, we will talk about a lot of things pertaining to their child. We will not discuss playing time with a parent. Coaches decision.
If he can be one of your best 11 Varsity special team guys, let him play that role. We don't need to get into the importance of special teams play here. He can be a vital part of your team in that role.
Like empty said, in life, working your tail off doesn't always guarantee that you'll get what you want in the end.
Good luck, coach.
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Post by coachdubyah on Jan 20, 2011 9:32:33 GMT -6
The OP said "Rudy" is "undersized, slow, and weak." So, I don't understand why so many are recommending using him on Special Teams. We play our best players in the Kicking Game, or at least kids that can Run and Hit. Doesn't sound like "Rudy." I don't want to lose a game trying to get a kid his letter just because he has perfect off-season attendance, is in NHS, or goes to church twice on Sundays. Completely agree, but if the kid is good enough to make open field tackles, which is hard for most kids to do anyway, I think there is a place on special teams for him. However, if he is hurting you, then you have to do what is best for the team. Do what you have to do to win. I think you give the kid every chance to play just as you would with anyone.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2011 9:38:13 GMT -6
For the record, I wasn't suggesting special teams because they are less important. Heck, I'm the special teams coordinator at my current job, so I understand how important special teams are! I was suggesting specials because of the 17 tackles stat.
Maybe I'm reading too much into that stat as it is only one stat from one game, but he HAS to have some open field tackling ability if he got that many tackles as a DB, doesn't he?! Sounds like someone who could possibly be a good kickoff and punt coverage guy to me. Couple that with the work eithic and I think that can easily be justified with a special teams captain.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 20, 2011 9:41:04 GMT -6
1. He had a large number of tackles because we were playing the 8-man version of Robber out of a 3-2-3. It was the safest position and coverage for him because he wasn't automatically locked up in coverage. I'm not going to get into the intricacies of 8-man football as it's a little different ball game.
2. Of course we have holes to fill on defense, we have holes to fill everywhere. BUT, when you have 8 guys healthy for two games because over half of the squad was either hurt or ineligible (and one got booted) you don't have much of a choice but to work with what you've got.
3. Special teams aren't an option, especially in 8 man. It doesn't take much for big plays to occur in the kicking game because there's a lot of open space to cover.
4. We are going with a 3-3-2 with a 2-shell concepts this year (C2/C4). He's not going to be able to hand the safety spot in either coverage.
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Post by blb on Jan 20, 2011 9:42:54 GMT -6
dubyah and wolverine - remember, OP said he made 17 tackles in a JV game!
Varsity whole 'nother deal.
And OP didn't say how many he missed.
"Undersized, slow, and weak" doesn't sound like Special Teams starter, much less "captain."
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Post by sportsleader on Jan 20, 2011 9:49:54 GMT -6
I agree with the guy who said don't worry about it quite yet. But - make more of an effort to have "Rudy" mentor and be a leader in the weight room. He should be LEADING your team in many other ways for 9 months. Don't waste it! Give him more responsibility, more opportunities to lead this whole off-season. It sounds like this kid will rise to any occasion. in this way he will be building up all your players, you will be building him up. Get him opportunities to speak to all your youth football players, parents, boosters,etc. He can be an ambassador for your program, leading and "starting" for 9 months before you even play a game. Put all your energy and creativity into channeling his great work ethic and leadership into all these other roles. You never know - he might bring in 4 amazing athletes by his testimonies, etc. Have him lead an off season service project. Sometimes we make the mistake of focusing leadership solely on the field and during the season. One year a team I work with had lost their starting running back, a senior, to injury and the second string junior to injury as well. So for this game, starting at running back was a Sophomore. The team had instituted what we call "Senior Mentoring" where Seniors mentor a few Sophomores on the team. They had an excellent and long drive at one point in the game, most of the yards coming on runs by this "3rd string" RB. He wasn't a big guy, maybe 5'8 175 more or less, but he had an enormous heart. They were hard-earned runs ... gains of 4 here, 3 there ... and on every run this "little" RB was breaking at least 1 tackle. I'm standing on the sidelines just outside of the box watching the game and watching the 2 RB's who were hurt ... watching the game. It was truly moving. These 2 upperclassmen were not sulking about injury or playing time - they were going crazy routing for this Sophomore whom they had come to love by mentoring him. Then came one of the most amazing runs I've ever seen. Power toss coming right at me, RB breaks at least 4 tackles and carries 3 guys with him about 10 yards till they finally drag him out of bounds and still they didn't bring him down. He gets up and immediately points to the 2 upperclassmen RBs, tears are absolutely gushing ... the 2 upperclassmen, drenched in tears as well, are physically being held back by other teammates so they wouldn't run out of the box or on to the field ... It was an absolute confirmation of what TEAM is about: LOVE. These kids loved one another and they were playing their hearts out for one another, leaving nothing on the field - whether they were injured or whether they were in the spotlight ... it was not about them individually. It was all about the relationships they had built up with one another. If we as coaches can have this same passion, this same love at building relationships with our fellow coaches and our players by mentoring ... great things happen. Maybe you don't win State but you'll win something much much greater than that - a memory like this! sportsleaderusa.blogspot.com/
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Post by hamerhead on Jan 20, 2011 10:02:06 GMT -6
dubyah and wolverine - remember, OP said he made 17 tackles in a JV game! Varsity whole 'nother deal. And OP didn't say how many he missed. "Undersized, slow, and weak" doesn't sound like Special Teams starter, much less "captain." I understand the concerns here. And if he is that much worse than many of the new kids that suddenly just showed up, then he doesn't need to be on the field. And certainly, if he plays over the more talented kids (assuming the more talented kids work hard) then you risk alienating them or them developing piss poor attitudes. But you run the risk on the flip side too. What's the team's opinion of this kid? What's their opinion of the other kids just coming out? You've got a kid who is apparently everything you preach - everything you want in an athlete in terms of attitude and work ethic - and now you can't find him a spot on the field? I don't know the situation, and lord knows I've seen this case where the kids on the team "hate rudy". If that's the case you may be ok. But if the kids on the team like him, respect him, and now all the sudden they're saying to themselves "Dang, rudy did everything coach asked him, coach always talked about how hard he worked, and now he can't get on the field? This is b.s. Screwy timmy talent, he's an a-hole, at least rudy works hard." All of the sudden you have some "fringe" talent kids, or maybe kids who don't know how talented they are (especially lineman type) who aren't interested in playing for you because you showed all your love to a new kid with a faster forty time and alienated a kid who was the poster child when you preached "count on me". I don't know what the circumstances are surrounding the varsity/jv situation at your school. Its different state to state and if he's now going from jv to varsity, that's another issue with him All I'm saying is, if he can't on the field defensively, fine. If you don't want to play him on special teams, fine by me too. But you'd better find some way to prop this kid and recognize him for what he is - without alienating those who resent him or those who identify with him. Otherwise, the things you preach about hard work, dedication and loyalty is just blowing smoke and the kids will see that.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2011 10:02:51 GMT -6
blb, I've read the OP twice and I don't see it being a JV game mentioned? Maybe I'm missing it somewhere? Was it JV, CB?
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