jman
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by jman on Dec 20, 2010 20:30:28 GMT -6
This is an excellent topic and there have been some fine, thoughtful responses. But most only address one battle. What about the war? Can a David win the war? Can a David rise up and win a state championship? A true David, is a David in every battle. By my assessment he is outmatched in almost every contest. The Air Force's, Navy's and even Mike Leach's of the world do not win many conference championships. They certainly do not contend for National Championships.
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Post by Coach Vint on Dec 21, 2010 11:16:34 GMT -6
Sometimes Goliath overlooks David and phones it in.
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dania
Junior Member
Posts: 365
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Post by dania on Dec 21, 2010 11:23:36 GMT -6
This is an excellent topic and there have been some fine, thoughtful responses. But most only address one battle. What about the war? Can a David win the war? Can a David rise up and win a state championship? A true David, is a David in every battle. By my assessment he is outmatched in almost every contest. The Air Force's, Navy's and even Mike Leach's of the world do not win many conference championships. They certainly do not contend for National Championships. you give mike leach an elite program,not a program that is not putting its money where its mouth is, and leach wins a NC and conference titles.
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Post by blb on Dec 21, 2010 11:38:36 GMT -6
you give mike leach an elite program,not a program that is not putting its money where its mouth is, and leach wins a NC and conference titles. There are coaches on this board who could do that with an "elite" program.
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dania
Junior Member
Posts: 365
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Post by dania on Dec 21, 2010 11:44:31 GMT -6
you give mike leach an elite program,not a program that is not putting its money where its mouth is, and leach wins a NC and conference titles. There are coaches on this board who could do that with an "elite" program. And I would agree, but their are not many who could make tt competitive week in and week out....and produce high quality qbs every year.
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jman
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by jman on Dec 22, 2010 21:38:33 GMT -6
This is an excellent topic and there have been some fine, thoughtful responses. But most only address one battle. What about the war? Can a David win the war? Can a David rise up and win a state championship? A true David, is a David in every battle. By my assessment he is outmatched in almost every contest. The Air Force's, Navy's and even Mike Leach's of the world do not win many conference championships. They certainly do not contend for National Championships. you give mike leach an elite program,not a program that is not putting its money where its mouth is, and leach wins a NC and conference titles. I certainly was not dissing on Leach. I personally thing he is one of the best coachs in the nation. My question is about "David" being able to win every week and win a Championship rather than just some games. Think about all the past state champions in your state. Has any "David" type programs ever won? Ever.....?
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Post by coachguy83 on Dec 22, 2010 22:30:26 GMT -6
Coach you need to read the book Twelve Mighty Orphans. I think it will answer your question.
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dania
Junior Member
Posts: 365
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Post by dania on Dec 23, 2010 10:27:14 GMT -6
you give mike leach an elite program,not a program that is not putting its money where its mouth is, and leach wins a NC and conference titles. I certainly was not dissing on Leach. I personally thing he is one of the best coachs in the nation. My question is about "David" being able to win every week and win a Championship rather than just some games. Think about all the past state champions in your state. Has any "David" type programs ever won? Ever.....? oops! sorry, never. or almost never....i think we had one a couple year at the lower levels, smallish offensive line win a state but not sure if that happened here, heard about via the net.
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Post by blb on Dec 23, 2010 10:55:12 GMT -6
I certainly was not dissing on Leach. I personally thing he is one of the best coachs in the nation. My question is about "David" being able to win every week and win a Championship rather than just some games. Think about all the past state champions in your state. Has any "David" type programs ever won? Ever.....? all the time. If they win "all the time" then they're not Davids.
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Post by Coach Vint on Dec 23, 2010 12:41:59 GMT -6
1. Belief- You have to believe you can win. This comes from outstanding preparation. 2. Relentless- You give everything you have for 48 minutes. 3. Make Plays- You have got to make plays, and you can't leave plays on the field. 4. Win the turnover battle- This is vital in any game, but especially in a "upset."
Back in the late 90's we took over a program that had lost something like 27 straight games. We began turning the program around, but we couldn't beat the better teams. The first time we beat a "goliath" we were down 8-0 with about 8 minutes to go. We had about 80 yards of offense, but our defense had played well. With 8 minutes left we intercepted an option pitch and ran it back for a touchdown. It was a freak thing as we had a D-End hit the QB from behind as he pitched. It went right into the hands of our outside linebacker. We missed the XP and were down 8-6. The D got a 3 and out and our offense was jacked up and ready. We had a 4 play 70 yard TD drive to take the lead 14-8. We went on to win 20-14. We went on to win the first playoff game in school history that year. We were prepared, relentless, won the turnover battle, and we made big plays.
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Post by khalfie on Dec 24, 2010 23:13:22 GMT -6
I always get miffed at the David and Goliath comparisons...
1. Teams prepare to win... not just against Goliath, but every week. 2. You have to execute to be successful... Goliath or not. 3. Every week someone is the underdog and someone is the favorite, being David or Goliath is arbitrary.
With all that being said, we all have opinions of teams, until they've actually played, and simply because our opinions of some teams supersede that of others, we get these David and Goliath scenerios, which normally hold up, until we, the fan base, fall victim to our subjectivity.
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Post by drewdawg265 on Dec 25, 2010 11:06:32 GMT -6
Interesting topic. I think the posters that stated the keys to winning any game are right on the money. Attitude, hard work in the offiseason and execution are the keys no matter what your talent level is. If you have those you should be able to compete. The thing that college programs who were mentioned ie leach, air force, navy, edwards; they all executed their offense and played to their strengths. All of those programs were not super complex systems. They beat teams by their level of execution. They ran their system better than others who ran the same system. We can list a number of schools that ran similar systems that were not nearly as successful. So I think the key is keep things very simple for your players. Everything you implement is executed better than your opponents. Run a system that has simple answers for adjustments. Get really good at what your players can do best. I think the biggest mistake struggling programs make is they try and do too much. They do this because of their perceived lack of talent.if they would have cultivated their talent by keeping things very simple in an effort to execute their scheme better than others I think they could be more competitive.
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Post by lukethadrifter on Dec 28, 2010 20:18:27 GMT -6
A combination of things that helped us beat 2 state-ranked teams 2 seasons ago to reach the playoffs. We were picked to finish last in district by everybody. Both head coaches at these schools had won state championships at those schools. 1) build those teams up to be great when newspaper reporters come by to talk to. No bulletin board material! 2) have your kids believe that they can win these games 3) "all warfare is based on deception" - defensively in both games, we would line up like they expected us to, & would pre-snap shift into fronts that a) would disrupt their top 3 running plays, & b) they had seen very little of 4) both teams were great at running the football with multiple people, & both killed people with the big run or the big play-action pass - so we put 8 in the box in both games & played cover 3 behind - we hammered our secondary toplay pass first and to not suck up on anything - more later
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Post by veerman on Dec 31, 2010 16:17:58 GMT -6
David beats Goliath the same way he did in the Bible. David must have faith and believe he can do it, and Goliath MUST over look David and take him lightly. If Goliath brings his best to the field David does not win. When Great teams play good it usually does not matter what David does. If David can beat Goliath when he is at his best then he never was a David to begin with. The chances that a David wins a championship is about as good as someone winning the lottery...twice.. David stories are great stories, BUT you dont win championships without good players. I agree with what someone said, if you win week in week out your not a David. David is the teams that win 2-4 games a year.
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Post by thakatalyst on Jan 2, 2011 17:03:05 GMT -6
After strength training and speed and agility work and with aggressive kids convince them that the field is only 10yds long both offensively and defensively and work for manageable 3rd downs on both sides of the ball. Play a 10 yd. field Stop them from making 10yds and you make 10 yds. Hawke You only have to beat Goliath that day. You may not be able to beat them every time but when you do it'll be because you outplayed them, not because you outcoached them. I'm on the Goliath side now but I used to be a David. Kept trying to come up with gimmicks. They rarely worked and only made the a$$whippings worse most of the time. As a Goliath I can't even count the number of times that the other guy had a chance but screwed it up with a bad gamble. Get rid of the ego. When we focused on "outcoaching" the other guy, we got hammered. When we focused on outplaying them that week, just coaching up our positions, we got better. I like this, coach. Great points. This past season, my HC would say "we need to out-coach them to win." Basically, he had no faith in our players, so he would install new plays everyday of the week - including Thursday, GASP gameday! We were completely different philosophically, which prompted me to resign immediately following the last game of the season. On offense - work on plays, installed - wing-t, double wing, wishbone, spread throughout the season. On defense - tackling, pursuit, forcing turnovers, practice critical situations. BTW, I'm the DC We beat 2 opponents this season that we had no business beating because kids made plays when they were supposed to - they knew what to do in those critical situations. I believe if you focus on developing your players opposed to "out-coaching" your opponent, your program gets better over time. Might mean you have to sacrifice some wins every now and then.
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Post by lukethadrifter on Jan 3, 2011 14:59:20 GMT -6
continuing my post from earlier.... 5) win the turnover battle - we blitzed on key tendency downs resulting in 2 interceptions in each game - in both games, we did not turn the ball over at all 6) ball control - we wanted to keep the powerful offenses of our opponent on the sideline - we won the time of possession battle in both games 7) the double wing - we rolled up huge numbers with this offense in these games - we had tinkered with it earlier in the season, and it was part of our offense, but it had not been shown much leading up to these games - we continued to rep it in practice week after week, and then ran it pretty much exclusively in both games for big rushing yardage
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