SNF - Chicago/Dallas QB's feet

Well, Romo's just a better athlete.

we're talking feet, here....not defending either one.

In relevance to its application to fundamental QB play....in that Romo is able to be successful because of the fundamental footwork and the things that malign Rex is his inability to recover (for throws) when he gets out of rhythm (foot foundation).

The feet was something Kurt Warner was good at, too.....so no matter if you have to move around in the pocket and avoid pressure, you still can deliver the ball quickly, because you don't have to "jumping-jack" back to a throwing stance.

I'm not going to argue with that.

The thing is, if a guy on a high school football coach's message board notices that, I would imagine that the Bears' offensive coaches would notice it, too (no offense, Brophy!).

My question is, why can't it get fixed? I have to think that Rex's coaches know what his technical problems are and are working hard to fix them...my question is, why doesn't it get fixed? Am I assuming too much here? Is it possible that the Bears' offensive coaching staff is not doing their jobs correctly?

Maybe that is why saban got out of the Pro game.....(?)

Pro Athletes knowing there are financial implications to their playing time(?).

1st round pick....GM's prized selection....never been afforded competition at the spot.....

Its kind of like two-platooning....when you know you've GOT the spot, how hard are you really going to work?

I guess the Chicago team has the EXACT SAME scenario going on with their (now) running back.

Again, for the sake of discussion, I'm not arguing what the Chicago Pro Franchise should do with their quarterbacks....

What I would like to address is a fruitful discussion about if footwork is REALLY that important with quarterbacks? I mean, when it "hits the fan", what really matters in quarterback play?

I would assume by this comparison that a constant, balanced weight-distributed stance is vital in a successful PASSER.

Apologies to Brophy for getting this thread off topic. Very good topic that he has brought up.

No more posts from me about Grossman.

Yes it is. Lower body balance, transfer of weight, movement of feet to set-to-throw, etc. are all EXTREMELY vital. There are many things that must take place but sometimes, in many of the experiences I've had coaching QB's, in fixing footwork (lower body problem) may 'solve' an upper body problem or make that solution easier to get to. Throwing the ball with velocity & accuracy (not to mention timing of "sight" through "set" to "release") is a TOTAL body movement for lack of a better term.

I am by no means an expert, though, so I won't take a stab at "fixing" Grossman's apparent shortcomings.

Broph: That should be "...tiene manejo de los pies horrible..."

Except for Favre

I think it's somewhat mental. Grossman seems to react with "panic feet" and get out of balance as he begins to move. Almost as if he feels the need to get way outside the pocket to clear himself to throw.

this is beaaaaautiful!!!
kissmesuzy.blogspot.com/

Broph you know how to "bring it" on a thread. Great stuff with the videos.

Bottom right video proves part of my point. The first play, the DB broke on the receiver's route a "half an hour" before Rex began his 1/4 mile stride to make the throw. Watch the skycam. He did this in the SuperBowl in the rain trying to force what doesn't fit, and with his feet so wide, the power drain on his delivery is dramatic.

Not saying the ball wouldn't still be picked if he had his feet under him, but you have two major issues going on here. He misses throws wide due to his feet later in that same vid, and he gets balls knocked down, or broken up, because he is just plain late. That can be feet as well, but "anticipation" mentally will affect the feet's movement for sure.

BROPH ASKED, WHEN "IT HITS THE FAN", WHAT REALLY MATTERS IN QUARTERBACK PLAY?

IMO, just my thoughts...

Feet(lower), Arm mechanics(upper), and Anticipation(decision making) go three wide down the track, separating the men from the boys in the NFL in throwing. That is at any level, for that matter.

Favre(Since someone mentioned him), is a great example of "anticipation" overcoming wild feet and sketchy arm mechanics. When Brett needs to get a ball in there, his feet are there. When he is moving to throw, he has learned in 16 years in the league, how to locate and anticipate without his feet being set using arm mechanics. This is the power of EXTENSION in the release. Brett has that little helmet move forward he makes on delivery. That highlights his commitment to EXTENSION with the arm, regardless of his body position. This is where the great ones live. He isn't great because of his feet, but in spite of them at times, because of EXTENSION(Arm mechanics) making up for it. Those nuances OF THE BIG 3 are lost on Rex.

Spread, as usual, a balanced assessment. As long as Romo can stay calm with his feet under him, he will be okay and in a position to do good, but if the game gets to him over time as it does to so many, his ARM mechanics will catch up to him as well. Romo can be a slasher in the Bledsoe sense of the word. It will catch up to him like it did to Warner, Bledsoe, and so many others.

coachm, right on! This is mental, as much as it is feet. Rex is under extreme pressure in Chicago right now. He is aware of what is at stake, and while his movement at one time may have put him a position to do good things, his decision making has deteriorated so bad(anticipation), that the throwing results are just highlighting the failures in his feet and arm.

Broph, great picture evidence of Rex's 1/4 mile stride on that "kissmesuzy" site. This is a great thread.

Take those three issues, FEET, ARM MECHANICS, AND ANTICIPATION interchangeably and you can break down strengths and weaknesses of any QB at any level. It may help you understand why some guys last by overcoming a weakness in one area, by being very strong somewhere else. But, if you are weak in two of them(feet and anticipation), like Grossman, your NFL days are numbered.

I guess a simpler way to say it would be, when it is all said and done, it is about being an "athlete" at QB, and I think Romo is just a better athlete.

I agree that Romo is operating, to some extent, on borrowed time. All young QBs are to some degree at that level, but the great ones develop all the other little things. Right now Romo's feet, awareness, and delivery are his stock in trade right now, as Elway's sheer arm strength was for him or Marino's delivery (not putting this guy on their level just yet).

But mostly I just wanted to say that I thought this was a great post, Darin. I love being able to just analyze these QBs without getting into rivalries/debates etc, because these guys can be touchstones for all of us and we learn a lot from what they do well and don't do well.

I'm curious Darin, who are your top guys mechanics wise? I would have to say mine is still Brady. The guy that intrigues me the most is Vince Young - I still am of the opinion that he is going to be a good NFL passer. I think he throws a catchable ball (unlike Vick) and his mobility will always be a bonus. I think his decision-making has improved. I don't totally mind his kind of half-cocked throwing motion.

But when I watch VY I do realize that he's not a particularly accurate QB right now. To make the obvious comparison to Vick, my problem with him is that he was both inaccurate and simply threw the ball too hard to be caught. Vince compensates by throwing catchable balls, but they miss out on a ton of YAC and sometimes the defense can close because of the inaccuracy (not wild, just off).

So my question for Darin is whether that can be fixed without overhauling the throwing motion more? I know Norm Chow doesn't want to do that, and I'm always really suspicious when these NFL guys want to redo some guy's throwing motion, but I'm curious what Darin thinks. Because, ultimately, VY will just have to be a decision maker and stand in there and hit receivers.

Thanks.

Again, this thread wasn't about "why is this quarterback for Team X, better than quarterback for Team Y".

It is more like,
"People are like toothpaste - you don't know what you've got until you squeeze them"

Likewise, the true test of WHAT / WHO a quarterback really is, is how he performs when it "hits the fan"

Which is why this entire thread was created..............

The TRUE difference between the two's success was not WHO they were throwing to, but when both were under fire ----- were they able to get back in a PROPER position to throw the football.

"FEET"....this is what I was referring to
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2014942269453512250&hl=en

[gvid]2014942269453512250[/gvid]

14 year old in the red is now the "fourth ranked" QB prospect in Louisiana, according to preps (whoever makes those stats, I dunno).

** I am not a good communicator

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I agree on Vick with all you said. But he is done for a while, so let' s move on...

Vince Young is an athlete. Plain and simple. Gifted by the Almighty in ways that the rest of us pay money to watch. Having said that, he has developed a flat sidearm delivery where his wrist travels wildly around his elbow. To his credit, he has developed a "touch" of sorts, but he lacks consistency in accuracy because his release is permanently "outside the 18 inch hallway." (I now refer you back to the "gifted by God" comment) Thus forcing him to essentially "guess" where to let the ball go on 4 different planes simultaneously. Up, down, right, and left. A tall order for anyone. Were he to learn what we teach, he could reduce that by 3, and put it down to "1." But hey, whatever works right?(tongue in cheek)

Like any great athlete, in the absence of compelling input for change, the conclusion, "I am amazing and don't need to change." The problem VY has now, is that this thought process is as deeply entrenched in him, as his 4.5 speed. Why? He spent 3 years fending off weak arguments from the Texas coaches to change it. He has essentially inoculated himself to the "virus of change."

Now that he has broken free into the NO FUNDAMENTALS LEAGUE(NFL), or excuse me, the NOTHING to FIX LEAGUE(NFL), he has escaped the surly bonds of earthly coaching, and is soaring through the stratosphere known as the NO FAILURES LEAGUE. It truly is good to be Vince Young, is it not?

Sorry, I am raging again, to answer your question: Yes, I could help VY, very easily, with compelling reasoning, and a viable adjustment that would not cost him his confidence. It cannot be an overhaul at this point. It is more an issue of his thought process on delivery. I would emphasize the power of extension, and the need to overcome his alignment with it. I would show him on video, exactly what it would need to look like to greatly reduce his inaccuracy. I would show him an even more effective way to assist his receivers with different locations of a throw. All stuff that is do able. The over-haul would depend on his thinking, actually. Some think any change is a nightmare, and equal to an overhaul.

At the end of the day, he has proven, that with ability, you can "get by", but is just frustrating that QBs, once they leave HS, see little chance to improve their ball flight, trajectory, accuracy, etc. because the coaching is so poor. Plain and simple.

Best mechanics right now....Brees, Manning, Brady, Palmer to name a few.

Understand, I am referring to consistency of footwork, motion, accuracy, and delivery when I refer to these guys - not decision making. That is a different animal, as Brees is demonstrating these days.

However, I do not believe VY would find any interest, simply because all of that is beneath and behind him, buried in a mound of dirt next to the TEXAS LONGHORN practice field with a sign from Mack Brown saying, "LEAVE VINCE ALONE!"

I do hope to change that NFL mindset before I die. You can bet the farm on that. And with some help I am hoping to get very soon, that may just become a possibility.

I am not suggesting that every QB needs an overhaul, but it is the paranoia with "passing pontificators" and "gurus" alike, that use "refried", tired concepts they didn't study, and can't do themselves, that produce more harm than good, that makes it rough for anyone to open their heart to anything else. I do hope one day we can rebuild some confidence in the coaching of passing mechanics. It just isn't there, or if it is, it is only "below the waist" allowed. Okay, I am done.

As always, love the actual discussion of QB play, and not the politics...Thanks for including me.