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Post by mariner42 on Sept 12, 2010 0:18:01 GMT -6
I've always been a beach bum, spent most of my lifetime intending on living here for as absolutely long as possible. I live in one of the most desirable places in CA, and therefore the country, but one of the unusual things about this area is that coaching jobs are weird here. There aren't many jobs and most get grandfathered to a successor or cast a narrow search net of the same usual suspects from around the area.
I've been thinking about the possibility of leaving for a while to see what life's like outside of here as a coach and I got to thinking: What's it like in small town/small school environments? I'm talking single-high school towns, low play-off division, low enrollment situations. What are the pros and cons? Is there something about the situation that makes it right for some folks and not for others?
Love to hear what those who know about it have to say. Thanks.
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Post by airraider on Sept 12, 2010 0:55:56 GMT -6
I've always been a beach bum, spent most of my lifetime intending on living here for as absolutely long as possible. I live in one of the most desirable places in CA, and therefore the country, but one of the unusual things about this area is that coaching jobs are weird here. There aren't many jobs and most get grandfathered to a successor or cast a narrow search net of the same usual suspects from around the area. I've been thinking about the possibility of leaving for a while to see what life's like outside of here as a coach and I got to thinking: What's it like in small town/small school environments? I'm talking single-high school towns, low play-off division, low enrollment situations. What are the pros and cons? Is there something about the situation that makes it right for some folks and not for others? Love to hear what those who know about it have to say. Thanks. Three years ago I coached at a school with an enrollment of around 120 kids in the high school... and around 400 for the whole school. The town is VERY rural with very little commerce. (mainly farming town) When I got there they had lost 20 in a row. We had no athletes, and ended up losing our first 9. We won our last game to avoid the 0-30 streak. But, as bad as all of that sounds... every home game was packed. Every little kid in the school just HAD to buy every shirt you could make. But, the bottom line.. they will never win.. this year they have 18 kids on the team.. and that includes a few 8th graders. But, it was a fun place to coach at.. the kids never missed practice, and the community loved their team win or lose.
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Post by superpower on Sept 12, 2010 11:01:49 GMT -6
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Post by phantom on Sept 12, 2010 11:28:43 GMT -6
If you know the coaching issues going in that doesn't need to be a problem. Seems like, as Air said, it can be a lot of fun. The question is can you live there? Rural life isn't for everybody.
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Post by coachcastleman on Sept 12, 2010 14:09:10 GMT -6
I coach at a school of 175 kids. We average around 30 on the teach, this year it is high, at 37. All I can say is, we win. Last year we went to the state championship, and I was the fifth different coach to coach this school in the big game. We have great community support and high expectations. The kids understand that and they work very hard in the weightroom and on the field. I love coaching a small school. I feel like I know the kids better than I would if I coached at a big school. We are only 15 minutes from a community of over 100,000, so even though we are at a rural school, you don't feel like you are cut off from the rest of the world.
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Post by op4shadow on Sept 12, 2010 14:18:52 GMT -6
i coached at a small school, we averaged 30-35 per season, this year is down to 27 players. problem we had was the school has been down for the last decade or so, lots of 1-9's, and not a very experienced coaching staff. i think it can be very beneficial to coach a small team. as stated above, you get to set some real relationships with the kids, a lot easier if you're not coaching 80 of them. in terms of winning, it's all about knowing your players attributes and playing to their strengths. if you get yourself a good staff, rally the locals and administration, good things can happen. just be ready for many up and down years. at small schools, talent can be stretched out and only come every couple years.
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Post by jpdaley25 on Sept 12, 2010 16:28:08 GMT -6
Our school has 200 kids 9-12. I have 1 coach on staff and the rest are community coaches. I have no custodial and limited maintenance support from the school. I clean the toilets and mop the floors and spend an enormous amount of time on things that are not directly related to coaching football on the field. Consider that before you make your move.
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go42
Sophomore Member
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Post by go42 on Sept 12, 2010 20:14:46 GMT -6
you get an opportunity to coach kids who would never have an opportunity to play at larger schools....and build life long bonds with those kids...probably won't have many college or pro athletes, but you will feel very proud when you see those young men being successful in that same small town....probably because they had the opportunity to play high school football and the lessons they learned carried on into life..... those kids don't get an opportunity in larger schools....
that in my opinion is the best part of coaching in a small community
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Post by coachkaseysmith on Sept 12, 2010 21:06:28 GMT -6
My first coaching assignment was at a Division 2 school in a pretty big city in California, 2000 kids or so. I wasn't teaching at the time and I was privileged enough to be on staff with some very intelligent, experienced coaches. In July of last year I was offered a teaching job in a farming town about 45 minutes away. I had to take the job to pay the bills. I was excited, I was a key part of calling the offense at a big school and was excited to go down a couple levels and make my mark. I was in for quite a shock when I got there. First, the level if coaches at smaller schools can vary significantly. It can be hard to get qualified coaches in a small town. Most of the coaches were former players who never left town. That was difficult to adjust to. 2nd: there was no support staff, no equipment manager, no athletic trainer (I got very fast at taping ankles). 3rd: I didn't have as good of athletes as I did at the big school but I had better football players. Hard working, blue collar kids that jut wanted to play. You can do a lot with kids like that. Small school football is a challenge for sure but it's making me a better coach without a doubt.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2010 0:28:48 GMT -6
It depends on the small town and the small school. Small town politics can either make or break a program. Then you've got to figure out if you'd be happy living in a small town. That's not for everyone. Also, how small of a school and how small of a town are we talking here? Around here, the smaller schools tend to be older and much more rural, built back before consolidation became the trend since the 70s. You may be working in a poorly maintained building that's at least 60 years old, with heat and AC that only work sparodically, leaky pipes, duct taped textbooks that date back to the Carter administration (seriously...), no computers in the school, etc. You may also deal with a higher proportion of parents who dropped out of school, religious conflicts, staff (and administrators) who only got where they are because of politics, etc. That's stuff to think about. I can't imagine coaching at a school with fewer than 200 kids and trying to field a football team. It's kind of fun when kids literally drive their tractors to school, though.
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Post by coachbrek on Sept 13, 2010 6:59:56 GMT -6
To me any school that can field an 11-man football team is not small. 6-man 8-man and 9-man football is small school football.
When I coached 9-man in North Dakota I drove the bus, taped the ankles mowed and painted the field, cleaned the locker room etc.
The program had never had a playoff team in school history, we made the playoffs my first year, went 7-2 the next year missing the playoffs, and made the semi finals my third year.
Turned a basketball, community into a football community, got all the best athletes out for football, which had never happened before, the games were packed with fans.
It was exhausting but it was a great experience.
I would recommend looking into a small school, the difference you can make is huge, compared to a big school.
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Post by flexoption91 on Sept 13, 2010 7:13:59 GMT -6
I coached in a huge district one year, but outside of that have played/coached in a small town/small district my entire life.
IMO, you learn more about the overall game and what goes into a program at a small school. I am not saying that can not be done at a large district, but in most small district you have to be the equipment manager, water boy, ankle taper, etc. You are also involved in all three phases of the game. You will never just be the freshmen DB coach and have no interaction with the varisty coaches. You will be the DB coach, WR coach, in charge of kickoff, and call the defense on saturdays. After the jv game, you will go back and break down film with the other coaches.
That being said, and someone mentioned it before, the level of coaching can be different. I would not say worse, because I have met some darn good small ball coaches, including many on here. In alot of cases you must be alot more creative when coaching small school ball. You often do not have the time to be highly technical. Preach the basics principles and fundamentals. You should worry about the advanced techniques. Kids are often learning at minimum 3 positons, and often times more. You might find yourself getting very frustrated teaching the finer points of a wrong arm when you only have 20 minutes a week of individual. Concentrate on making sure the player understands where he needs to be on a pull and that he gets there. If it is not textbook wrong arm, but he gets inside the trapper than you may have to live with it.
You also have to be convincing, not only for the kids but for yourself. Sure that kid weighs 130 pounds, but he fills on an iso. I have coached all-conference kids that would get laughed off the jv team for a large school. To me, that is what makes small school coaching so great. You very rarely have kids that just fit a position. So therefore, you have make sure your coaching fits the kid so he can fit the position.
The cons have been mentioned above. In most small schools, be happy with a DVD player and 32 inch tv. Technology might include a desktop computer that ran slow 10 years ago. Rumors and hear-say are part of any small town. With people living together for so long, many being related, and lack of much to do in many small towns, the school and football team are the focus of the town.
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Post by atalbert on Sept 13, 2010 8:56:49 GMT -6
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 13, 2010 8:58:26 GMT -6
Coaching at a small school will definitely make you have to get all your eggs in the same basket.
Worked at a small 1A school for 6 years, 5 of those with the winningest coach of all time at the school. We had a declining enrollment from 240ish down to 200 in that span. Now we had some good athletes, going to the semis twice, and final once. We always had good numbers, averaging around 40 for varsity, with another 15 or so for JV (kids could play 8 quarters)
You will have to do more than coach football. You better learn/know how to coach another sport. Plus you will get stretched thin with all the extra stuff. Our header was a single guy, but when would he have time to find a honey? He was the HFB, HBB, H B&G Tr, drove a school bus, AD, and taught a full load (Sp Ed). Plus he had to cut all the athletic field, and cut grass around the high school and around the elementary school (right down the road).
Facilities will not be the greatest, but usually the community will do all they can to try and make the best of giving you what you need. The parents might not have money to give, but if you needed the hot water heater replaced, they would come in and fix it, or building a little make shift tunnel for the kids to run out on the field. We had a relative of one of the coaches run our concession stand, and man did we eat good. You will always have some skinny little kid wearing a XX pair of pants, with the knee pads flopping around his ankles.
The local mill would always be doing something for the team, sending a load on concrete to pour a pad for the cheerleaders, donating materials for the press box, getting a new sign for the score board, etc.... Not any money, but stuff they had laying around or left over.
Kids will be great b/c there is nothing else to do. Now you might have to pile them into the back of your pickup truck to go a 7-7, or take a load home every day after practice. We had a Dad volunteer, and all he really was glorified water boy, but sure helped by taking home 8-9 kids in the back of his truck everyday. Even the little things you do for kids will be greatly appreciated. Our HC, during track season would always find a way to go to a track meet near the coast. For many of those kids, it was the first time they had ever seen the ocean. One year a coach bought some spats for the kids to wear. I thought they were ugly, but the kids LOVED them. The DC created a club of defenders called the Lawyers. To become a lawyer, you had to do something big in game (big hit, big play, etc.... some special) and then you had to get nominated by the other lawyers on the team. If you were nominated, you then had to repeat the accomplishment to get 'striped'. If you did that, then the DC would put a blue stripe down the middle of the helmet. He then went further, if one of the lawyers did something else big, they could become a judge and have 2 stripes down their helmet. Just something the kids thought was a big deal. Take kids on road trips if you can afford it. Some of the kids never have that opportunity. The year we played in the finals, our game was at 11 AM in a neutral site, so we decided to go the night before and stay in a hotel. A bunch of our kids didn't have a suitcase/bag, much less a clue as to what to pack. We had another road trips (4 hours) and went by a major university on the way. So we arranged to take a little break and tour the stadium. You should have seen the looks on some of the kids faces.
Kids can be frustrating b/c this is all they got (way of life). You will have several kids every year that have the tools to make something better of themselves (athletic talent, brains, work ethic, etc...) but all they want to do is exactly what all their relatives/friends do, just get a job at the local mill, farm, etc.... Also, be aware of cultural differences. We never practiced on Labor Day b/c that is the 1st day of dove season. We had our starting FB show up late to a game b/c he had trouble getting a deer out of the woods he had shot that afternoon. We always had 1 or 2 kids that would leave Wed practice early b/c of church. Some of your kids will literally have never left the county. The only time they get to 'town' is to go to the dollar store for back to school stuff. We had kids that had never been to a mall before.
You can't always expect the kids to do the things you have done at a bigger school. Might be b/c of home expectations, they play multiple sports, or it just was never done that way. Now they will do what you expect them to do, but they might not always have the means to accomplish it.
Fund raising will be a huge hurdle. Most small towns just don't have the resources to give you all you want. Find a way to make the most of what you have available. You probably won't be able to do the card blitz, b/c you might not have enough local vendors/might not be cost effective b/c you might not be able to sell but a few hundred; however if you raffle off a shotgun/ATV or sell hash/BBQ, the fans will line up for that. You will probably have not trouble getting your team fed, those folks love to cook. Giving a meal to some one is a big deal.
You have to imaginative with your schemes and how you use players. One playoff game, our team had a pretty disappointing finish and barely made the playoffs, we took our starting QB and moved him to WR and let the tailback play QB. 1st play threw a fade to the QB and scored to go up 7-0 in the 1st 10 seconds of the game against the #1 seed. Ended up hanging on to win b/c of that 1st play.
You probably won't need 10 different coverages, 12 different blitzes, 15 different offensive formations, etc...... Find a niche for your kids and rep the heck out of it. On the flip side, trick plays or gadgets will often be the deciding factor of big games. We were a formation team. Our HC would never show the same formation on game night they had seen on tape. Often after half time, we had some little wrinkle saved up so they couldn't adjust to in the locker room. We ran our same basic plays, but would change our blocking rules base on how they would line up to our formations. I know that sounds strange, but our kids could learn those new rules b/c we keep them very basic/simple. Now that often caused us to box our selves in, but we usually had a good plan.
Make special teams a weapon. Most small schools often have to spend so much time on teaching the basics, that a well executed punt block scheme, KO return, etc... can be a difference maker.
Some small towns are wary of outsiders. They may like you, but they might ever accept you. My wife is also a teacher, and she made this comment to me. Now I literally knew everybody in the area and everybody knew my family. I grew up there. They tolerated her and were very nice to her, but she felt like she was never accepted. You will always be the coach from "........" Small town politics are no different that they are in larger communities, other than the fact you probably go to church with the pain the arse. Small town just don't have many folks moving in and out like bigger town do.
Often, your staff will be in constant flux. Let's face it, ambitious coaches will always look for the bigger, better job. If you have a good coach on staff, somebody will come looking for him. We were very fortunate to have a quality staff together for most of that time. Most of us were local boys who had left and come back home. Again, you have to make the most of the resources you have at hand. You will have to teach and train your coaches as much as your kids.
So far as living there, don't expect your cell phone to work all the time. You better go ahead sign up for a satellite service. High speed internet, think again. Might have to drive 30 miles to get to a grocery store. If you are a private person, don't expect much privacy. Everybody knows what everybody is doing, or at least thinks they do. You will probably be able to find a great deal on housing, but don't expect to be able to sell it quickly if you leave. I still have a house back down there. If they really like you, you might not have to every pay for a hair cut. Now you might have learn to like sideburns, whitewalls, flat tops, etc.... If you have never been in a small town, expect culture shock. If you have wife, you better be a good salesman or really good at something else
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Post by flexoption91 on Sept 13, 2010 9:00:45 GMT -6
You would be surprised....Just because we are small does not mean we do not have our fair share of "different" kids
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 13, 2010 9:05:15 GMT -6
Also, those kids can be TOUGH. Those farm boys are used to physical labor and will work. Some of the best hitting players I have ever seen didn't know a form tackle from fishing tackle.
Also, when you do get that stud OG, DE, FB, etc..... your success will not depend on getting him to play at a high level, his talent will enable him to play at a high level. You success will depend on getting that OTHER OG to play well at 130 lbs running his 5.3 40
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lrader
Sophomore Member
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Post by lrader on Sept 13, 2010 9:29:20 GMT -6
I've lived/coached in a small town my whole life as well. So when people talk about getting used to living in a small town, I see it the other way. I hate big groups of people, and driving in citites. You would have to pay me a very large amount of money to live in a big city.
That being said, there are times I would like to be at a bigger school where parents don't see you every day to talk to you. All the negative things people have said are true
The positive I see is this: if you get that program started, you can often win 3 games or so each year just by having kids that understand where they need to be on plays. A lot of small schools won't be very well coached b/c they can't find a qualified coach that wants to live in the town. So even when you're terrible, you can at least compete with or beat a few schools on your schedule.
The biggest pro to me though is seeing the kids who are small and struggle to walk and chew gum at the same time. But they do everything exactly like you tell them and they succeed. Seeing that as a coach just makes your day. I don't know if you'd get that at a big school. The only thing better than that is when they come by to see you a few years later and want to talk b/c of the relationship you've built with them. Or everytime their parents see you they tell you how Johnny's doing. Those two things are probably my favorite part of coaching
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Post by phantom on Sept 13, 2010 9:50:45 GMT -6
I've lived/coached in a small town my whole life as well. So when people talk about getting used to living in a small town, I see it the other way. I hate big groups of people, and driving in citites. You would have to pay me a very large amount of money to live in a big city. That's the point. Not everybody likes the same lifestyle. You really need to do your homework before you commit to a move because if you find out that you can't stand it then life can be miserable.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2010 23:08:02 GMT -6
One thing I've observed and forgot to mention earlier:
Small schools tend to fall into two catagories:
There are those where football isn't just everything, it's the only thing in town. These places tend to be football crazy, have kids who will work their butts off, have high standards with lots of pride, and are usually very tough to beat.
Then there are those where football is nothing. There's no tradition there, few resources, and no one cares or has much concept of what it really takes to build a winner. They get a cynical inferiority complex rooted deeply in that culture and cutting out that cancer can be very tough. These are also the programs most likely to hire someone without head coaching experience or some strong personal/family connections.
I wish Touchdownmaker was still active on here. He'd have some good experiences to write about for this thread.
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Post by cnunley on Sept 14, 2010 7:04:38 GMT -6
I currently coach at a Small A school in VA with an enrollment of 380 students.
I love the small school atmosphere. Like others have said you really get to know your students and players on a different level by the low numbers.
The downside is we struggle to get more than 20-25 kids on a team. Last season we finished with 16 varsity players grades 10-12. Right now we have 24. And, like others have said before some of the players that start both ways for us would probably never see the field at a bigger school. But to me thats what makes it a good place to be. Those kids will hold a special place in their hearts for football the rest of their lives.
Our school has NEVER been good at football. The best recorded season was 6-4 back in 1979. So we are fighting a major battle to make it IMPORTANT to them. We are slowly getting there. Luckily, there is a good group of Freshman coming up and an even better group of kids which will be 8th graders next year so hopefully we can get things turned around here. With low numbers it can be a rollercoaster ride with the talent level.
One of these years I want to try my hand at a bigger program so I can really focus on the Football aspect of things. But right now I'm enjoying the relationships involved at the lower level.
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Post by blb on Sept 14, 2010 7:55:18 GMT -6
Guy I know was successful at school of 300 or so for about a decade, then got his "dream job" at a school four times that size.
Towards the end of his career he told me, "People think the 'big' jobs are the best. Sometimes I think the small school jobs where the whole community is involved are the best."
As others have mentioned, your personality and where-how you feel comfortable is a big factor.
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lrader
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Post by lrader on Sept 14, 2010 11:42:50 GMT -6
A guy I look up to greatly coached basketball and football at a small school for years. He basically said the same thing to me. He was offerend numerous jobs at big schools to coach basketball (he won 83% of his games as a basketball coach in 28 years as a head coach). He told me "everyone always asks why I didn't take the challenge of going to a bigger school. But I felt like it was more of a challenge to try to maintain what I had built with fewer players". He also cared about the kids/community/school greatly so it was hard for him to leave.
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Post by gdoggwr on Sept 15, 2010 9:22:09 GMT -6
Another thing about small schools is that the political situation can change quickly. I taught for 5 years in a small town (about 150ish 9-12). the first few years it was great, then a new superintendent was hired who was one of those "inner circle" guys and it changed really fast.
I also second the comment about having a wife. If she is not 100% ON BOARD with going to a small town, don't go.
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Post by k on Sept 15, 2010 11:51:17 GMT -6
George W Bush, Ike Eisenhower, Thad Cochran, and Trent Lott were all cheerleaders.
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Post by phantom on Sept 15, 2010 12:20:48 GMT -6
George W Bush, Ike Eisenhower, Thad Cochran, and Trent Lott were all cheerleaders. If your point is that being a cheerleader does not make you less than masculine I agree. In the interest of accuracy I need to point out that Eisenhower played football.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 15, 2010 13:19:20 GMT -6
I coach in a school with a population of just over 100 students and we're in a very small, isolated community. There isn't a football tradition down here; basketball is king. I've only got 15 kids right now (8 man football) but we'd have over 20if a few guys had been eligible. It has been a great situation for me because the school has a hard time getting and holding onto coaches and teachers because we're so isolated. The teams haven't had very good coaching over the years and when word spread that I appear to know what I'm doing (lol), a lot of enthusiasm developed quickly. We're actually competing now, the kids are having fun and the community and the school has really banded together around us.
I will say that the small-town attitude puts your under a microscope. When I go into town, people great me by name; people I have never met in my life. That can be tough because the small towns can be nosy and intrusive which I am kind of struggling with right now. There's some personal stuff going on in my life and there are folks who are prying into it. You just have to be conscious of that fact; the whole town will become aware of things in your life if you allow it. It can be very cliquey as well; people tend to square off in a hurry. I've been doing my best to keep my distance from the people I work with; I'm pleasant, but I don't join them in social situations.
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Post by tothehouse on Sept 15, 2010 13:54:58 GMT -6
I live/coach in a "small" town in CA. It not as small as some of the ones you guys are mentioning. It has about 15,000 people. It has 2 high schools. A lot of stuff you guys have mentioned occurs here as well regarding people knowing people. I originally came from a very large city. Being in this environment though, has been great.
I think...if possible...if you can find a place that you like you should stay. A lot of guys move around because they think something is better at a different place. I enjoy the lifestyle I have right now....and being a part of a good football program is a bonus.
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Post by coachfurn on Sept 15, 2010 14:11:12 GMT -6
here in texas..small town football is great. You either have an overbearing school board filled with unrealistic parents...or a fully cooperative one who will help you with anything you want. Not much of an in between. I personally love small town foootball...and I plan on getting back to it one of these days...hopefully sooner than later. One of the few downsides is the cut in pay you will take....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2010 16:36:43 GMT -6
George W Bush, Ike Eisenhower, Thad Cochran, and Trent Lott were all cheerleaders. If your point is that being a cheerleader does not make you less than masculine I agree. In the interest of accuracy I need to point out that Eisenhower played football. A former HS teammate of mine in switched to cheerleading in college after struggling as a walk-on RB at Carson-Newman. He was maybe 5'6" and ran about 4.9. Not exactly great numbers for a SS at a top Div. II program. So he quit football after a year, transferred to a state school, and became a cheerleader. He got a free ride for his last 2 years of school and wound up marrying the hottest girl on the squad after dating half of the others. Last I heard, he was a decorated officer in the Marines who'd led platoons in both Iraq and Afghanistan.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2010 16:47:59 GMT -6
So what I've taken from the responses to Mariner's OP is that no matter where you go, you're doing to deal with politics.
I always assumed that a bigger school district in a more metropolitan area would be less likely to play "inner circle/usual suspect" politics with coaches than a small town where they want someone they've known since he was a kid. But Mariner was looking at smaller schools in the first place to try to get away from that.
For those of you who've done both, is that the case?
I'm from a small town and I don't like the way they do things there, so I don't want to work there if I can find a job elsewhere, but some of the others around here seem like great places to coach from the outside.
The issue I'm worried about is that just getting the job is so politicalicized: you've got to know the right people and be one of them to get hired in the first place. That's especially true if you want to be a HFC, but even the teaching jobs are like that.
The superintendent of a local system here has even told a couple of people in my program at school that "Unless your family goes back 3 generations here, you're just wasting your time if you apply."
That kind of stuff worries me.
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