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Post by Sparkey on May 19, 2010 14:23:49 GMT -6
I was surprised to learn today on NFL Live that Hall of Fame coaches Vince Lombardi, Paul Brown, Bill Walsh & Bill Belinchek (sp?) never played the game of football. There was one other I can't remember.
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Post by wingtol on May 19, 2010 14:29:47 GMT -6
I think you are wrong in saying they never played the game. They may not have played in the NFL but they all played the game in college.
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Post by John Knight on May 19, 2010 14:59:56 GMT -6
Enrolling at Ohio State University as a freshman quarterback, Brown (also known as Bruno/Pot) found his 145-pound frame would not stand the rigors of major college football, and transferred to Miami University in Ohio, losing a year of eligibility in the process. Under Coach Chester Pittser, Brown played two years and was named to the All-Ohio small college second team by the AP at the end of the 1928 season.[2] In 1930, he graduated from Miami with a B.A. in Education. He would complete his academic career in 1940 when he received an M.A. in Education from Ohio State University.
Pretty sure Charlie Weiss never played college football.
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Post by coachguy83 on May 19, 2010 15:24:45 GMT -6
Vince Lombardi was one of the famed seven blocks of granite at Fordham.
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twp15
Sophomore Member
Posts: 111
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Post by twp15 on May 19, 2010 17:23:38 GMT -6
I don't think Charlie Weis played. He may have in HS, but not in college. Also Mike Leach never played college football. Don't know if he played in HS.
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Post by ccscoach on May 19, 2010 17:29:14 GMT -6
Bill Belichik played at Wesleyan in Mass he was a Center and Tight End, he was also the Captain of the Lacrosse team.
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Post by blb on May 19, 2010 17:36:46 GMT -6
There are very few great NFL coaches who played professional football.
And there have been very few great (or even good) NFL players who were successful NFL coaches.
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Post by Sparkey on May 19, 2010 17:45:20 GMT -6
If the above is true, then Tedy Bruschi misspoke himself on NFL Live today. He said, "They never played football."
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Post by blb on May 19, 2010 17:50:40 GMT -6
If the above is true, then Tedy Bruschi misspoke himself on NFL Live today. He said, "They never played football." Well, duh...Lombardi, Belichick, Parcells, Walsh - many others never played in NFL. But most if not all played in college. There is no Super Bowl-winning or even league-championship coach who never played at any level.
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Post by superpower on May 19, 2010 18:05:39 GMT -6
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Post by coachguy83 on May 19, 2010 21:56:05 GMT -6
That is pretty good information but it's not completly accuarate. Bill Parcells was drafted by the Lions and attended a camp, but was cut.
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Post by k on May 20, 2010 7:34:37 GMT -6
Bill Belichik played at Wesleyan in Mass he was a Center and Tight End, he was also the Captain of the Lacrosse team. No he played at Wesleyan University in Middletown Connecticut. Go Cardinals.
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Post by John Knight on May 20, 2010 7:37:50 GMT -6
Mike McCarthy played at Salem College then went to Scottsdale Community college(basketball) and then Baker KS. I knew him at Salem. He doesn't remember me or being at Salem! McCarthy had fond memories playing football, especially of the 9-2 team his senior season in 1986. Before coming to Baker, McCarthy attended Salem (W. Va.) College and Scottsdale (Ariz.) CC, where he was recruited to Baker by Richard. www.bakeru.edu/images/pdf/Alumni/BakerPride_Spring06.pdf
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Post by pmeisel on May 20, 2010 19:37:58 GMT -6
A lot of good coaches start coaching early and get experience, because either injuries or talent wouldn't let them play anymore. This is true in a lot of sports....
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Post by flexoption91 on May 21, 2010 7:49:35 GMT -6
I think it is unfortunate, albeit the nature of the beast as I have learned, that where and at what level you played weighs so heavily on your perceived coaching abilities and .
I made the conscious decision not to play college ball. I had a couple of d-II and a bunch of D-III offers, but realized it was not in my best economic and personal interest to play. It has nothing to do with lack of desire or interest; I was just looking at the big picture. I knew I wanted to coach and had no clue the decision I made to not play would be detrimental in this field. While in high school, I was at school to play ball and had very few study skills that would benefit me in college. I understood, with some very serious counseling from my parents, that I would not make in college with my skills at the time. Additionally, my parents said they would pay for everything, at the state college rate. Everything I was offered would still leave me $6-10,000 in the hole on a yearly basis. Therefore, I went to a community college for a year and transferred into one of the top state colleges in the country. I walked out with no debt, while friends of mine are saddled with $50-80,000 of debt for their time.
Fast forward to today, and I have coaches (mainly at major schools or schools where many people want to coach) who I inquire with about positions on their staff that are only willing to hire guys who played at the next level or make it a point to ask me first and foremost where I played in college. When I tell them I did not play, the next statement centers around the idea that I cannot handle working for a major program (on the high school level) because I never played college ball. I try to explain to them that I never miss a weight room session and I am a constant learner, but they consistently go back to the fact that I never played college football. Now, it is not every coach but it happens a lot more than most would imagine and I expected.
So my question is, what is it about playing at the next level or even in the pros gives someone such knowledge that someone who only played high school cannot obtain?
Why in this field are we so enamored with idea that college or pro football players are automatically better choices because they played?
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Post by hlb2 on Jun 8, 2010 8:21:35 GMT -6
Same thing with the college degree. I have guys who cheated their way through the same business school I went to, and got the same piece of paper I did, and are making better money than me. Why? Our society is so fixated on what you have and not what you can do. What you can do, is intangible, and must been seen, what you have is tangible, and can be seen, or in your case researched. I guess it's just human nature.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 8, 2010 9:42:41 GMT -6
Same thing with the college degree. I have guys who cheated their way through the same business school I went to, and got the same piece of paper I did, and are making better money than me. Why? Our society is so fixated on what you have and not what you can do. What you can do, is intangible, and must been seen, what you have is tangible, and can be seen, or in your case researched. I guess it's just human nature. The reason is that people don't have time to wait and discover "intangibles". Do you? If you are a header, do you have the luxury of discovering in week 3 "geez..this guy is a moron." While obviously what people HAVE is not a foolproof method, short of trusted character references it is really the best way to try and protect yourself...isn't it?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2010 11:03:19 GMT -6
Same thing with the college degree. I have guys who cheated their way through the same business school I went to, and got the same piece of paper I did, and are making better money than me. Why? Our society is so fixated on what you have and not what you can do. What you can do, is intangible, and must been seen, what you have is tangible, and can be seen, or in your case researched. I guess it's just human nature. The reason is that people don't have time to wait and discover "intangibles". Do you? If you are a header, do you have the luxury of discovering in week 3 "geez..this guy is a moron." While obviously what people HAVE is not a foolproof method, short of trusted character references it is really the best way to try and protect yourself...isn't it? So the value of a person is in what they have, not who they are? I've talked to people who are complete morons who have degrees etc. Yet they have no clue! I would say you are taking a risk no matter what. I think you need to be smart here as well. HLB2 and I both agree on when we add a coach to the staff, he goes in at the bottom of the totem pole...with NO pay (like we'd have any anyways). We have him stay on as a volunteer coach, and if he proves his worth, he earns a stipend. Coaching for a year with a guy, lends itself to show what he's made of and what he's about. You can usually spot the blowhards withing the first game or 2. Just my 2 pennies... Duece
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 8, 2010 11:14:27 GMT -6
Don't get me wrong Duece, i didn't say the value is in what they have. I stated that during the hiring process, in coaching as well as in business, UNLESS you have a mutual trusted reference (the ever popular, who you know) then what else is there to go on.
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Post by endersgame on Jun 8, 2010 11:53:41 GMT -6
Thank you thank you thank you. I was never able to play a down of even high school football due to vision problems, and I'm afraid that when I eventually start looking for a coaching job that I'll be turned away because I never played the game- implying, of course, that I know nothing of it. It's a wide-spread logical fallacy in the coaching ranks.
Some of my friends have seen me reading stuff on coaching football and asked me if I wanted to be a coach. When I said yes, the very next question out of their mouths (in every case) was, "How can you expect to coach it when you never played the game?"
Okay, yeah, I haven't played organized football. And yeah, it would be better to play it in addition to learning how to coach it. But I've done my fair share of athletic activities and I generally know what works and what doesn't for almost any sport. I know the principles and ideas and the importance of this and that. Having played baseball for a few years before my vision started really going bad helped me understand social dynamics on a team (looking back my baseball coach was also a great example of how practices should be run). And not to brag, but I'm fairly athletic- more than a good portion of my peers, anyways. So I really hate when people belittle me and say that because I was never involved in organized football I can't possibly coach it. I sort of look up to the few coaches with minimal or no playing experience and made it to college/professional ball, because they give me a shred of hope that I can reach that level someday too.
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Post by bouncingboredom on Jun 8, 2010 11:56:59 GMT -6
On the subject of degrees a friend of mine, aged 27, is close to getting his Masters Degree in Mathematics ..... but still has to get his flat mate to do up his tie in the mornings. Proof that a degree does not always equal general competence.
As for the pro-coaches who never played any football, I think Todd Haley is one of the few (he played Golf in college). He's been to a Superbowl with the Cardinals and did pretty darn well with that offense. Now HC of the Chiefs, it'll be interesting to see how he gets on.
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Post by airman on Jun 8, 2010 14:15:06 GMT -6
mike leach never played college football
dennis franchionie(sp) never played college football. he did play college baseball.
I worked on a NFL team for 1 year. most former players make poor coaches as they are not used to the amount of hours spent working in the nfl.
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ccox16
Junior Member
Posts: 343
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Post by ccox16 on Jun 8, 2010 14:35:48 GMT -6
Thank you thank you thank you. I was never able to play a down of even high school football due to vision problems, and I'm afraid that when I eventually start looking for a coaching job that I'll be turned away because I never played the game- implying, of course, that I know nothing of it. It's a wide-spread logical fallacy in the coaching ranks. Some of my friends have seen me reading stuff on coaching football and asked me if I wanted to be a coach. When I said yes, the very next question out of their mouths (in every case) was, "How can you expect to coach it when you never played the game?" Okay, yeah, I haven't played organized football. And yeah, it would be better to play it in addition to learning how to coach it. But I've done my fair share of athletic activities and I generally know what works and what doesn't for almost any sport. I know the principles and ideas and the importance of this and that. Having played baseball for a few years before my vision started really going bad helped me understand social dynamics on a team (looking back my baseball coach was also a great example of how practices should be run). And not to brag, but I'm fairly athletic- more than a good portion of my peers, anyways. So I really hate when people belittle me and say that because I was never involved in organized football I can't possibly coach it. I sort of look up to the few coaches with minimal or no playing experience and made it to college/professional ball, because they give me a shred of hope that I can reach that level someday too. Enders just to give you a glimmer of hope, I never played in high school either due to various reasons. But that didnt stop me. I volunteered at a local high school working with the freshmen (luckily they just had 2 coaches quit and only had 1 left) when I was 22. I then was able to help them with varsity after freshmen season was over, they were understanding when I said I didnt know something. for the next 2 years I worked with the freshmen and was the assistant Oline coach on varsity at a different school. This up coming season I will be an intern for the UFL's Florida Tuskers. Its taken a lot of hard work to learn what I know but im hopeful that im headed in the right direction. So good luck to you.
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Post by coachbrek on Jun 8, 2010 16:26:58 GMT -6
I had three different head coaches in high school and not one of them every played a down of football in their life.
One was local farmer who was tough as nails and had a military background, he made us tough, he was a good coach, but we were loaded with talent and our qb called all the plays in the huddle.
The other two coaches were horrible, clueless, and hopeless football coaches. I am still peeved about it to this day.
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Post by warrior53 on Jun 8, 2010 18:53:44 GMT -6
I come from an opposite side of some of you guys. I was by no means a great high school player, but I was good enough to get a couple of looks. I did everything I could to play college football, including racking up major debt, in order to play. I knew from the time I was a boy that I wanted to coach, and I knew that playing college football, no matter how small a college or conference would help me in the long run. If I had to walk on, I would have done that.
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Post by coachks on Jun 11, 2010 17:36:32 GMT -6
Does anybody here actively refer to their playing experience while coaching?
My high school career consisted of goofing off during practice (I was a split end, we didn't have a split ends coach...we just ran shadow blocks on imaginary corners during RB drills), and then standing around most of the game (occasionally chasing a corner across the field).
Damn I learned a lot.
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Post by endersgame on Jun 18, 2010 0:34:40 GMT -6
I'm bumping this again because I'm about to go on a mini-rant.
Some 40 year-old guy who played high school ball (and of course who could have gone "all the way" if he didn't decide to settle down and raise a family, as his friend told me) told me repeatedly I knew "{censored}" about football because I never put on a helmet. He also insulted me throughout the argument, questioning who I was (suggesting he's cooler than me because he, a 40 year-old, and I, an 18 year-old, never crossed paths) and suggesting I wore panties and bras. All of this over facebook, which is pathetic and means to me that he's being an Internet tough guy. In fact, his friend even mildly threatened me, saying that if I didn't "show some respect"- I thought I was very calm and respectful when I said I disagreed with him- he'd have to "find me."
Is this how it's gonna be? I'm not even coaching yet and I'm already being called out for not playing, despite it being a logical fallacy? There's a 40 year-old guy insulting an 18 year-old over the Internet because I didn't join the no-cuts high school team? Wow. Just wow. Excuse my French, but I'm really {censored} off at this. I know I should shake it off and laugh, but it's really riled me off. What's more, we were arguing, then called truce because everyone was making jokes and we decided we'd rather do that. We calmed down and said we were cool with each other. Then after about twenty minutes he decided to start it up again with "one last comment." Now I'm {censored} because he started attacking me again, on a medium where all my friends can see it.
I mean I know I haven't reached the level of "football genius" yet like some of the guys on the boards, but I do know some stuff. Definitely way more than Joe Fan, anyways. My blood pressure just shot all the way up.
I'm gonna keep arguing with him because now I feel I'm invested, but this really pisses me off. I know he's "just a fan" and as a coach-to-be I should just walk away because I'm striving to be more than that, but if he's gonna be stubborn about it then damn, so am I.
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Post by brophy on Jun 18, 2010 6:35:45 GMT -6
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Post by flexoption91 on Jun 18, 2010 7:01:21 GMT -6
I'm bumping this again because I'm about to go on a mini-rant. Some 40 year-old guy who played high school ball (and of course who could have gone "all the way" if he didn't decide to settle down and raise a family, as his friend told me) told me repeatedly I knew " {censored}" about football because I never put on a helmet. He also insulted me throughout the argument, questioning who I was (suggesting he's cooler than me because he, a 40 year-old, and I, an 18 year-old, never crossed paths) and suggesting I wore panties and bras. All of this over facebook, which is pathetic and means to me that he's being an Internet tough guy. In fact, his friend even mildly threatened me, saying that if I didn't "show some respect"- I thought I was very calm and respectful when I said I disagreed with him- he'd have to "find me." Is this how it's gonna be? I'm not even coaching yet and I'm already being called out for not playing, despite it being a logical fallacy? There's a 40 year-old guy insulting an 18 year-old over the Internet because I didn't join the no-cuts high school team? Wow. Just wow. Excuse my French, but I'm really {censored} off at this. I know I should shake it off and laugh, but it's really riled me off. What's more, we were arguing, then called truce because everyone was making jokes and we decided we'd rather do that. We calmed down and said we were cool with each other. Then after about twenty minutes he decided to start it up again with "one last comment." Now I'm {censored} because he started attacking me again, on a medium where all my friends can see it. I mean I know I haven't reached the level of "football genius" yet like some of the guys on the boards, but I do know some stuff. Definitely way more than Joe Fan, anyways. My blood pressure just shot all the way up. I'm gonna keep arguing with him because now I feel I'm invested, but this really pisses me off. I know he's "just a fan" and as a coach-to-be I should just walk away because I'm striving to be more than that, but if he's gonna be stubborn about it then damn, so am I. Piece of advice handed down to me my first year: Stop arguing with him. Being stubborn is almost a job requirement for being a coach, but you will never win with ignorant fans or parents. Let it be, and if a 40 year old man is picking a fight through facebook, that should tell you something about the direction his life is going. If you let this get to you than you do not stand a chance on friday nights when all the "experts" are hurling insults and cuss words at you as you just "ruined their sons entire career."
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Post by phantom on Jun 18, 2010 8:28:04 GMT -6
I'm bumping this again because I'm about to go on a mini-rant. Some 40 year-old guy who played high school ball (and of course who could have gone "all the way" if he didn't decide to settle down and raise a family, as his friend told me) told me repeatedly I knew " {censored}" about football because I never put on a helmet. He also insulted me throughout the argument, questioning who I was (suggesting he's cooler than me because he, a 40 year-old, and I, an 18 year-old, never crossed paths) and suggesting I wore panties and bras. All of this over facebook, which is pathetic and means to me that he's being an Internet tough guy. In fact, his friend even mildly threatened me, saying that if I didn't "show some respect"- I thought I was very calm and respectful when I said I disagreed with him- he'd have to "find me." Is this how it's gonna be? I'm not even coaching yet and I'm already being called out for not playing, despite it being a logical fallacy? There's a 40 year-old guy insulting an 18 year-old over the Internet because I didn't join the no-cuts high school team? Wow. Just wow. Excuse my French, but I'm really {censored} off at this. I know I should shake it off and laugh, but it's really riled me off. What's more, we were arguing, then called truce because everyone was making jokes and we decided we'd rather do that. We calmed down and said we were cool with each other. Then after about twenty minutes he decided to start it up again with "one last comment." Now I'm {censored} because he started attacking me again, on a medium where all my friends can see it. I mean I know I haven't reached the level of "football genius" yet like some of the guys on the boards, but I do know some stuff. Definitely way more than Joe Fan, anyways. My blood pressure just shot all the way up. I'm gonna keep arguing with him because now I feel I'm invested, but this really pisses me off. I know he's "just a fan" and as a coach-to-be I should just walk away because I'm striving to be more than that, but if he's gonna be stubborn about it then damn, so am I. Piece of advice handed down to me my first year: Stop arguing with him. Being stubborn is almost a job requirement for being a coach, but you will never win with ignorant fans or parents. Let it be, and if a 40 year old man is picking a fight through facebook, that should tell you something about the direction his life is going. If you let this get to you than you do not stand a chance on friday nights when all the "experts" are hurling insults and cuss words at you as you just "ruined their sons entire career." Look at it as a lesson in "real coaching". You can't win these arguments.
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