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Post by 19delta on Jan 17, 2010 20:30:11 GMT -6
Well...all of the guys who made it to the top had to get started SOMEWHERE.... ...So, if your goal is to be a BCS head coach, then go for it! Don't let a bunch of anonymous people on some website tell you you're a fool. It is like ANYONE who is at the top of their profession...sports, politics, business...you HAVE to start somewhere... Granted, it never hurts to have a father who won a national championship, either! By all means if you have an interest someone should "go for it". Knowing the realities of the situation don't preclude you from success. However, it is also important to look at trends. Is the top tier (in terms of status/fame/money, NOT ability) of coaching becoming more or less exclusive. Are the new wave of those coaches starting out somewhere and networking up...or are they walking in because of name recognition previously earned (playing or family name...) That was the point of contention with the author of the article. Apparently "paying dues" now constitutes walking into a Top 20 program as a GA, getting a Division 1 full time job out of the gate, and getting a chance to be a full time coach at a top 5 school 4 years into his career. This is not to say that Derek Dooley isn't fully deserving. I met him while at LSU and he comes off completely in control and deserving of these things. I am just saying Poorbob's dues will be significantly different... but that isn't really covered much. I think guys like Kiffin and Dooley are clearly in the minority...the only reason those guys got where they are so quickly is because of their charter membership in the Lucky Sperm Club. But, the thing to remember is that your DNA will only get you so far. If Kiffin falls on his face at USC (and his track record up to this point indicates he will), my guess would be that he will never be a head coach of a major program again. Same goes for Dooley. When it comes right down to it, college football is a results-driven business and if you don't get the results, you are done. I really think that the truely great ones...the ones who are the top of their profession...those guys paid their dues. Urban Meyer might be one of the best examples...it took the guy over 20 years to get to where he is today. So yeah...it will be tough. But it is tough for ANYONE who makes it to the top of their chosen profession...sure, connections matter and having a famous father helps but, in the end, you will have to stand on your own two feet.
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Post by coachks on Jan 17, 2010 21:09:26 GMT -6
No only is it luck to get an opportunity, it's luck to get a real opportunity...and it's luck to be able to capitalize on it.
Lets say someone gets that GA job (wins the lottery). They show up, impress the DC and the defensive staff. You put in your time, but the DC ends up fired (or the whole staff), they thing you have a ton of potential, but they don't have a job for you.
When that staff is scrambling for work, you aren't going to be high on their priority list. Where are you going to land? How long can you go without work?
Or even worse, you get the foot in the door and you're impressive....too impressive and other coaches don't like the new guy being so damn good. There are a lot of insecure people.
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Post by hemlock on Jan 17, 2010 21:35:02 GMT -6
I will try to set a few things straight here. I coached DIA football. I never played college football, nor did I start too many games in high school. I was very fortunate to have played for a high school coach who new the business, new people (John Jenkins, Mouse Davis, June Jones) and greased a few skids to get me a student coaching gig that quickly became a GAship, which after my undergrad became a full time position. I will be the first to admit - my opportunities were pure luck. Now, I stuck on because I worked hard and all....and then got out, probably because I had too much too soon. I don't know how many of you guys have actually coached real college ball but it is a very difficult life and tough road to hoe. It seems great from afar, and indeed, there are many fine things about coaching, but after a while you begin to realize that you make your living, support you family, etc by pimping 18 year olds. I know that sounds crass, but at that level that is what its all about.
What you need to realize is that even if you do get a coveted GAship that does not mean that all of the sudden you will get something later. Turning a GAship into a job is the tricky part and a lot of it depends on who you GA for - some guys will walk over hot coals for their GAs, others don't even think about them.
I've seen lots of fine coaches work as GAs, go no where and then feel that their life is in a shambles. Here's the deal: taking a shot at being a GA is worth it if you are single and don't have any restrictions. If you have a family, are not wealthy or connected, do not have much of a playing resume - stay away.
You have to realize also that in many instances just being a good coach is not good enough. A number years ago before I got out I interviewed with a PAC-10 program in the northwest with a coach with a farely big reputation. He still coaches in the PAC-10, albeit at a different insitution. The interview went great - it really did. He put me through my paces on the board, grilled me with questions as did his O-coordinator. After the interview was over, he took me out to dinner. He then told me that he was not going ot offer me the job and he had a very simple reason. He said: "Listen, you got a great football mind and can clearly teach; you'll get another job - don't worry, in fact, I'll be one of your references; however, I going to offer the job to this guy...the reason I'm hiring him and not you is simple: he has a Rose Bowl ring as a player, played two years in the show and one in NFL Europe; he does not know nearly as much as you do, nor will ever; however, I can send him to Los Angeles where he will talk there talk, talk the talk of their parents, and flash his bling. I can teach him to do his job; I can't give you what he has naturally." Well, there it is. Believe me, many jobs are decided this way, especially now. I appreciated his candor, used him as a reference, got a job that last two years and then walked away.
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Post by carookie on Jan 18, 2010 23:33:30 GMT -6
Its basically just a glass ceiling. Nobody would argue that a coach at the highest level was not bright, or did not pay their dues; the issue is that we have all coached with bright coaches who have paid their dues (and would be successful wherever they coached) who will never get an opportunity to coach at these highest levels.
Its not like a player, if you play well at HS a college will find you, if you play well there you move on. The reason being that there are thousands of good coaches out there; given the proper training there are many hardworking coaches could be DI coaches (its football not rocket science).
I'm sure I don't need to beat a dead horse about how hard it is for most good HS coaches to support their family on a GA's salary (and thats also the rub, most good HS coaches have been at it a while and thus have families to support).
So until they institute some sort of Rooney rule for HS coaches to move up the ranks, all you can do is coach where you are at and accept the glass ceiling.
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Post by dubber on Jan 19, 2010 11:02:32 GMT -6
You have to realize also that in many instances just being a good coach is not good enough. A number years ago before I got out I interviewed with a PAC-10 program in the northwest with a coach with a farely big reputation. He still coaches in the PAC-10, albeit at a different insitution. The interview went great - it really did. He put me through my paces on the board, grilled me with questions as did his O-coordinator. After the interview was over, he took me out to dinner. He then told me that he was not going ot offer me the job and he had a very simple reason. He said: "Listen, you got a great football mind and can clearly teach; you'll get another job - don't worry, in fact, I'll be one of your references; however, I going to offer the job to this guy...the reason I'm hiring him and not you is simple: he has a Rose Bowl ring as a player, played two years in the show and one in NFL Europe; he does not know nearly as much as you do, nor will ever; however, I can send him to Los Angeles where he will talk there talk, talk the talk of their parents, and flash his bling. I can teach him to do his job; I can't give you what he has naturally." Well, there it is. Believe me, many jobs are decided this way, especially now. I appreciated his candor, used him as a reference, got a job that last two years and then walked away. Fantastic insight. And this paragraph is the bottom line. R-E-C-R-U-I-T-I-N-G is the end all, be all in college football. PERIOD. With that in mind, the BEST way to make this dream come true is to insert your way into the recruiting aspect of the program.....yeah, it's the part that sucks, but as hemlock pointed out, there ain't no ivory towers of football. I thought I wanted that life, but I choose to be a family man. Besides, at the end of the day, building relationships with young men who could actually use my help is far more fulfilling than any glory I might otherwise chase. I like the Bowden quote.......I ain't got it, and that's ok.
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Post by wingtol on Jan 20, 2010 12:27:19 GMT -6
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Post by warriorhog51 on Jan 20, 2010 21:30:20 GMT -6
Here is my take. I coach at a D-III school. I played D-III and have always coached D-III. I get asked by several high school coaches every year about making the jump to college. I don't usually have the fortitude to put it this way because its usually during recruiting and I am trying to build a relationship with the guy that will help both of us. If you think of it from this stand point it might open a lot of eyes and minds.
The hours are long during season, but longer during the recruiting season. Hours during the season: 8 am to 9 pm (mostly football, some b.s., so enjoyable for the most part); hours during recruiting: endless. On the road from Thanksgiving to February at most small school programs. In the office by 8 am dealing with admissions/financial aid/academics of current players, etc. when not on the road. Make calls from as soon as the kids get out of school until I almost fall asleep at my desk. If you think season is a grind, then you haven't recruited to a small school (even worse when there are no application deadlines and you are recruiting until July).
Most guys who have been coaching high school long enough are making significantly more money than any college job they can get. Yes, money is important. I know most guys on here would coach for free (I have and certainly would do it again), but you have to eat and live somewhere. Often there is a family involved that needs to be supported as well. Pay cuts to coach college sound good in the mind and may seem feasible, but when it comes right down to it, usually aren't worth it.
Coaching is actually a small part of the job. Recruiting is by far #1, retention is probably #2, and coaching is a distant #3. Its not easy being a college coach. If you really want to impact kids' lives, coach high school. That's my opinion. High school coaches, I think, are able to spend more time with their athletes and typically have them during a very impressionable time of their lives. Not that you can't make a difference in their lives when they are college-aged, but it certainly is harder.
It is harder to find a balance between your job and your family. I know that high school coaches today are putting in a lot of hours game planning and preparing, and that's great. I love recruiting kids who have a good understanding of football, and its impossible to put in long hours preparing and not pass that knowledge on to the players. I will just a assume that everyone works 8am to at least 8 pm during the season. Its the rest of the year that differientiates between high school and college. I still don't get to spend enough time with my wife when the season is over, because I go straight into recruiting. I was on the road the Tuesday after our last game this year, and have been gone steadily Monday through Friday since then. (Yes, I understand you put in hours in the weight room, running, and in some places have spring ball. But that is still probably better than traveling 500+ miles per week, living in hotel rooms, and eating fast food for three months or longer.)
People glorify college coaches. Why? I don't know. Its not as amazing as a lot of people believe it is, or make it out to be. Its not football 24-7-365. There is a lot of other stuff that you have to do and deal with that people don't even think about.
Yes, I realize that probably sounded like one big complaint about my job. Don't get me wrong, I love what I do. I don't ever want to do anything else. If I coach D-III football for the rest of my life, then it will probably have been a good life. If you think you want to coach college, go for it. Work your butt off and find a way, but understand that the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence.
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Post by IronmanFootball on Jan 21, 2010 20:37:26 GMT -6
Not to bump the threat up but Johnny Depp was also very good friends with Nic Cage on the LA party scene before he got famous. Cage is obviously related to famous people = Depp gets a good break. Basically if I was friends with Lane Kiffen I would've had a chance at a break too.
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Post by Coach Vint on Jan 21, 2010 21:18:07 GMT -6
One year Bob Stoops was at a urinal in the bathroom and a young coach tried to hand him a resume. Without missing a beat Stoops threw it in the urinal and kept on relieving himself. The young coach stood there dumbfounded. I don't think he got the job...
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Post by Coach Vint on Jan 21, 2010 21:31:15 GMT -6
Warrior, you are right on. I coached HS, NAIA, and D2 ball. NAIA recruiting is year round! It is absolutely a grind and thank God I was single! D2 was different because there was a signing day and some actual rules. Whether you coach HS or college the hours are long if you do it right. I also had to teach at the NAIA, and not PE. I taught Freshman English, and they kept adding to my teaching load. I agree as well that having a connection or something extra is important in many respects. Recruiting is also a vital talent. If you can bring dudes in you will help your career. The key is that if you put everything into coaching, whether HS or college, you will be successful. If you do things the right way and for the benefit of the kids, you will be a success. Regardless of where you coach, make the most out of the opportunity.
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