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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 4, 2009 15:12:26 GMT -6
Finally heard an NFL announcer give it straight. Dan Dierdorf just commented that the "wildcat" (or seminole as it is called in the Jets program) is nothing more than the single wing. His nearly exact words were "It is a very smart formation that just makes the qb a running position. It is just the old single wing, what the leather helmet guys used to run"
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Post by coachinghopeful on Oct 4, 2009 15:29:47 GMT -6
At times, Dierdorf can be one of the best announcers the NFL has. This was one of those times.
I'm sure the ESPN postgame shows will still rip "this Wildcat nonsense" again this week, though.
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Post by Coach Geordie on Oct 5, 2009 12:03:10 GMT -6
Could not agree more, Dierdoff tells me about the game
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Post by brophy on Oct 5, 2009 12:09:15 GMT -6
In reviewing the film, I was kind of stumped on how this actually does present so many problems for defenses (outside of the horizontal pressure) Our staff toyed with the idea of going Wildcat to put the ball into our athletes hands quickly, but I couldn't see what it really provided outside of what most teams already do. |
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Post by airman on Oct 5, 2009 12:34:40 GMT -6
being the qb in the single wing was not such a glamor position. It was essentially a blocking back position.
the tail back was the player.
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mce86
Junior Member
Posts: 281
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Post by mce86 on Oct 5, 2009 14:25:01 GMT -6
Extra blocker for run plays because you have to account for the QB with a DL or LB....
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Post by coachinghopeful on Oct 5, 2009 15:26:11 GMT -6
In reviewing the film, I was kind of stumped on how this actually does present so many problems for defenses (outside of the horizontal pressure) Our staff toyed with the idea of going Wildcat to put the ball into our athletes hands quickly, but I couldn't see what it really provided outside of what most teams already do. I think that's a big part of it. If your QB is a runner already, why bother with a special package to put someone else there? However, if it's the NFL and your QB is a 6'6" 240lb statue with a dress on, it has some merit. Remember, the NFL guys are just now catching onto this fancy new thing called "jet sweep" and some of them thought unbalanced lines were illegal as recently as a couple of years ago. I like the Wildcat more because of the possibilities it holds than anything else. The actual package livens up NFL games for me a little bit, but I see it as helping to usher in a modernized single wing rebirth. More HS and college teams will see "this Wildcat thing" and be inspired to play around more with unbalanced lines, misdirections, etc. |
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Post by airraid77 on Oct 5, 2009 17:11:18 GMT -6
you understand that none of this is new?
their is a reason the single wing went away.
if you look at sw book written in the 50s? almost all of the "brilliant offensive innovation" at least take shape their.
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Post by brophy on Oct 5, 2009 17:24:23 GMT -6
There
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Post by phantom on Oct 5, 2009 18:17:14 GMT -6
In reviewing the film, I was kind of stumped on how this actually does present so many problems for defenses (outside of the horizontal pressure) Our staff toyed with the idea of going Wildcat to put the ball into our athletes hands quickly, but I couldn't see what it really provided outside of what most teams already do. That's how we see it. In our league we see a lot of athletic QBs so we're used to having to play against a QB who can run. Last year, though, our QB was paying with a torn ACL so naturally we didn't want him running. We put in a little Wildcat with our TB taking the snap. It wasn't any big deal- we had all of those plays in anyway- but I'm not sure how much it helped. |
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Post by Yash on Oct 5, 2009 19:02:06 GMT -6
I'm a huge Notre Dame fan and Charlie seems to think that the Wildcat is a great 10 yard line red zone play. Everytime they are in it I cringe. They have scored 2 times this year off of it but they have also had some big losses. with the talent that they have on offense I hate it when they take the ball out of Jimmy Clausen's hand with the great WR's they have. Just run your base offense. You have a 6'6 TE that no one can cover, Golden tate who no one can tackle and a top 10 QB in the nation.
If your QB is not great, like Arkansas when McFadden and Jones were there, yes, thats a great formation/ series. but if your QB is one of the top QB's in the nation, why take the ball out of his hands. Same reason you'll never see Wildcat in New England or Indy.
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Post by bobgoodman on Oct 5, 2009 19:50:19 GMT -6
There's an important difference between these wildcats and the "leather helmet" type attacks. These wildcats are just a shotgun formation with someone other than the team's best passer taking the snaps. The snap is taken by someone standing flat footed or at most backpedaling. Once in a while when they're in what they call their shotgun someone other than the passer steps in from the side and intercepts the snap, but when they're in what they call their wildcat they don't do even that.
In many of the "leather helmet" offenses -- single wing, short punt, box, thrown-snap double wing -- there'd be a choice of backs in the formation to snap to, and whoever took the snap (unless it was a really short one) would be led by the ball rather than waiting for it stationary or backpedaling shotgun or wildcat-style. Usually this was done by having the snapper look between his legs, but it can also be done to some degree with a soft blind snap if there's more than one player in position to run onto it -- as even the shotgun users realize when they have a running back intercept the snap.
It's not as if nobody realizes this principle today. In the Super Bowl a few years ago on a 2 point conversion play, the 49ers lined up in what was otherwise a shotgun but with the receiver of the snap behind a guard instead of the center, so he got a running start to the corner with the ball snapped to its usual spot. But clearly they could get away with that only once; nobody's using the lead snap as a regular part of the offense unless they really are playing single wing or some such and know it. Even teams using a running punter ("rugby style") who runs only toward his kicking foot's side (so there's nothing left to telegraph) don't seem to think of offsetting him instead of starting with the ball flat footed. Some teams in snapping the ball to a running back in the shotgun as a surprise move offset both backs so the runner can catch the snap flat footed instead of running onto it! Would they also pitch out to a stationary runner, figuring you can't toss to a moving target? Do all their pass routes end with the receiver stationary on a spot?
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Post by Yash on Oct 6, 2009 5:13:34 GMT -6
In the Super Bowl a few years ago on a 2 point conversion play, the 49ers lined up in what was otherwise a shotgun but with the receiver of the snap behind a guard instead of the center, A few years ago? 49ers haven't played in the super bowl since 95! Few is a pretty loose term there!  |
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Post by phantom on Oct 6, 2009 10:09:39 GMT -6
In the Super Bowl a few years ago on a 2 point conversion play, the 49ers lined up in what was otherwise a shotgun but with the receiver of the snap behind a guard instead of the center, A few years ago? 49ers haven't played in the super bowl since 95! Few is a pretty loose term there! That depends. If you're 25 1995 was a long time ago. If you're 55 it was "a few years ago". |
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Post by coachcb on Oct 6, 2009 10:36:19 GMT -6
I mean, bottom line, if you're installing a Wildcat/Wildhog formation and you're installing new blocking schemes for it, you're just taking a step back. I've seen a lot of offenses in the class underneath us go this way; teams installing whatever blocking scheme that the college or NFL teams are using...
We have enough athletic QBs in our conference that they just install and empty formation and run their normal blocking schemes and runs. We are facing a Hybrid Wing T team this week that has a 6'4'' 225lb, 4.4 running Wing/Slot/SE that's going DI in some PAC-1O school and might be going to Arkansas.. Best athlete this state has seen in awhile.
They have a Wildcat package with him as the QB that they use A LOT. Simple stuff; Fly Sweep one way, QB GG sweep the other way. They run an empty trips formation as well; with a bubble screen threat too.. Honestly, who gives a sh-t about bubble or missile screen when you have a monster playing QB, ready to run the ball... LOL.
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Post by phantom on Oct 6, 2009 12:03:00 GMT -6
I mean, bottom line, if you're installing a Wildcat/Wildhog formation and you're installing new blocking schemes for it, you're just taking a step back. I've seen a lot of offenses in the class underneath us go this way; teams installing whatever blocking scheme that the college or NFL teams are using... We have enough athletic QBs in our conference that they just install and empty formation and run their normal blocking schemes and runs. We are facing a Hybrid Wing T team this week that has a 6'4'' 225lb, 4.4 running Wing/Slot/SE that's going DI in some PAC-1O school and might be going to Arkansas.. Best athlete this state has seen in awhile. They have a Wildcat package with him as the QB that they use A LOT. Simple stuff; Fly Sweep one way, QB GG sweep the other way. They run an empty trips formation as well; with a bubble screen threat too.. Honestly, who gives a sh-t about bubble or missile screen when you have a monster playing QB, ready to run the ball... LOL. Realy. Please run bubble. I'm begging you. LOL |
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Post by bobgoodman on Oct 6, 2009 19:16:27 GMT -6
A few years ago? 49ers haven't played in the super bowl since 95! Few is a pretty loose term there! That depends. If you're 25 1995 was a long time ago. If you're 55 it was "a few years ago". I am 55, but now come to think of it, I guess it wasn't the 49ers. Were the Broncos in the Super Bowl in the past 5 yrs.? The game I remember was in that time period, and it might've been them. At least I'm pretty sure it was in that period. I'm already way past the point where something seems very recent but was a decade past. |
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Post by Yash on Oct 6, 2009 20:09:52 GMT -6
Broncos haven't played in a super bowl in 10 years.
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Post by coachinghopeful on Oct 7, 2009 3:02:13 GMT -6
That depends. If you're 25 1995 was a long time ago. If you're 55 it was "a few years ago". I am 55, but now come to think of it, I guess it wasn't the 49ers. Were the Broncos in the Super Bowl in the past 5 yrs.? The game I remember was in that time period, and it might've been them. At least I'm pretty sure it was in that period. I'm already way past the point where something seems very recent but was a decade past. The last 5 years have given us the following teams in the Superbowl: Steelers Cardinals Giants Patriots Colts Bears Seahawks Eagles |
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Post by bobgoodman on Oct 9, 2009 19:12:31 GMT -6
Ah yes, I remember it well.
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Post by td4tc on Oct 10, 2009 6:15:52 GMT -6
wow.lots of different teams in those 5 super bowls when you look at it.If you run Jet anyway, i like wildcat as a way to save my Qb and use up clock later on in a game that we are winning. the best wild cat play is the throw off it because nobody expects the RB to be able to throw.
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Post by khalfie on Oct 10, 2009 10:51:15 GMT -6
I too am mystified by the "success" and "mystique" of the wild things.
1 back? Jet action?
Um... I'm zoning the coverage and playing the run?
I guess the problem lies in the fact, that the team going "wild" was a pretty good running team anyway, or should I say run blocking team...
But removing the QB should benefit the defense... not the offense? What's that about?
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Post by td4tc on Oct 10, 2009 22:13:07 GMT -6
nice little wrinkle from Meyer tonite with Tebow that would work nicely with wildcat because you need more than jet and fake jet power unless defenses stay retarded on this.
tebow fakes jet right and then fakes QB power (steps into line like he does on his PA fake sometimes) and then tossed it to a WR coming back left.simple reverse with not too many exchanges.terrible time to call it though.can't believe Meyer on fourth and 2 early in game and calls a reverse...
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lgoody
Freshmen Member
Posts: 84
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Post by lgoody on Oct 11, 2009 18:20:34 GMT -6
I don't know that he is the guy making the calls. I think that's Addazio.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Oct 11, 2009 18:29:02 GMT -6
really getting tired of the baloney about how effective the wildcat aka spread single wing is as a wrinkle...guys running off about it during broncos pats game.
"wild horse" this and that...sheezus, what did they score? twenty points? big deal.
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Post by coachinghopeful on Oct 11, 2009 21:05:41 GMT -6
I like the wildcat stuff just because it's a little different from what NFL teams normally do. As boring as the typical NFL game is, it's nice to see SOMETHING that deviates from the standard short passing dinkfest.
But yeah... people in the media act like it's either the most inspired change in the game since the forward pass or that it's "just a gimmick" that should be legislated out of existence. To me, it's no more of a gimmick than having a 2 minute offense, a goal line package, or a 3rd down back. For some teams, it works. For others, it doesn't. The novelty is wearing off now that everyone's doing it, which is something that has to happen eventually.
I'm just waiting to see if an NFL team starts basing out of a Wildcat sort of thing. I already see fans of college and even HS teams demanding their struggling offenses "just switch to the wildcat" like it's the latest magic bullet.
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Post by phantom on Oct 13, 2009 13:03:17 GMT -6
After the Miami win last night I thought I'd give this thread a bump to see if anybody has any new opinions or comments.
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Post by raiderpirates on Oct 16, 2009 14:35:14 GMT -6
Lucky the refs didn't call holds at the point of attack on their home field. That's sure to hold up on road games. All we need is a defender who is unable to turn around for some reason until the football is past him on every play....
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