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Post by bobgoodman on May 2, 2009 7:47:43 GMT -6
I started this thread in response to the one about the kid quitting high school to go over to Europe. In basktetball, as much as I dislike it, it appears that grades do not matter (in the athlete's mind) because you can go straight to professional basketball (NBA or Europe). Heck, you can even quit school and go play. I was just curious about football players if there was some way to skip college and just go play ball. What I've seen is, no there is not. So for football players, grades do matter (to the athlete) if you want to play at the next level and beyond. There's no way around it. Basically, the NCAA (and to a much lesser extent the NAIA) and the NFL have made agreements in restraint of trade, and the colleges have tax and other privileges, to a degree that, especially in the TV era, they have squeezed out the minor leagues from serious money and competition. The colleges can effectively run football for profit, and take tax deductible donations for it even when they don't profit, and in some cases can subsidize football facilities out of tax revenues. Decades ago the NFL and AFL entered into an agreement (albeit possibly an informal but widely known one) with college football over their players and even the timing of their games that had it been between private businesses would have been understood as a blatant cartel agreement, but because of college football's hallowed status has not been treated as such. Also about 40 years ago NFL squashed the nascent farm system some of their clubs were developing, simply by making a bylaw against it.
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Post by phantom on May 2, 2009 8:01:32 GMT -6
I started this thread in response to the one about the kid quitting high school to go over to Europe. In basktetball, as much as I dislike it, it appears that grades do not matter (in the athlete's mind) because you can go straight to professional basketball (NBA or Europe). Heck, you can even quit school and go play. I was just curious about football players if there was some way to skip college and just go play ball. What I've seen is, no there is not. So for football players, grades do matter (to the athlete) if you want to play at the next level and beyond. There's no way around it. Basically, the NCAA (and to a much lesser extent the NAIA) and the NFL have made agreements in restraint of trade, and the colleges have tax and other privileges, to a degree that, especially in the TV era, they have squeezed out the minor leagues from serious money and competition. The colleges can effectively run football for profit, and take tax deductible donations for it even when they don't profit, and in some cases can subsidize football facilities out of tax revenues. Decades ago the NFL and AFL entered into an agreement (albeit possibly an informal but widely known one) with college football over their players and even the timing of their games that had it been between private businesses would have been understood as a blatant cartel agreement, but because of college football's hallowed status has not been treated as such. Also about 40 years ago NFL squashed the nascent farm system some of their clubs were developing, simply by making a bylaw against it. Eliminating team subsidized farm systems isn't restraint of trade. You're allowed to have a minor league. The NFL just isn't going to pay for it. I'm a little fuzzy about the "cartel agreement".
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Post by 19delta on May 2, 2009 8:19:46 GMT -6
I'm a little fuzzy about the "cartel agreement". ![](http://www.unafuente.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/pablo-escobar.jpg)
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Post by phantom on May 2, 2009 8:46:33 GMT -6
I'm a little fuzzy about the "cartel agreement". ![](http://www.unafuente.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/pablo-escobar.jpg) Ahhhhh. I recognize him. That's the head of the BCS.
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Post by kylem56 on May 2, 2009 10:10:48 GMT -6
If the players arent ready for college (academically, maturity, etc) they can try the JUCO route or the Prep School route (wouldnt lose any years of eligibility)
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Post by coachd5085 on May 2, 2009 10:28:44 GMT -6
I think the underlying concept of this thread reveals a very illogical (but 99.999% true) premise. The current landscape of American football is such that attending college is essentially a BFJQ (bona fide job qualification) for the NFL. Absurd but true.
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Post by bobgoodman on May 2, 2009 14:08:58 GMT -6
Eliminating team subsidized farm systems isn't restraint of trade. You're allowed to have a minor league. The NFL just isn't going to pay for it. No, it went beyond that. In the late 1960s some NFL franchises (Phila. Eagles come to mind, I don't remember who else, maybe an AFL team too) entered into arrangements with minor league teams to serve as feeders. Then the owners got together and banned the practice. They continued to allow clubs to have "taxi squads" and eventually continued the expansion of rosters, but forebade them to have anything like the farm teams in baseball. The NFL & AFL agreed not to play games on Fri. or Saturdays within something like 50 or 75 miles of where a college varsity game was taking place. They also agreed not to have players play until what was at least theoretically their college class had graduated, and not even to seek to sign them before their class had played its last game. Over the same period the NFL & AFL were merging, they were making this non-compete deal with the NCAA and shutting down the nascent football farm system.
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Post by justryn2 on May 2, 2009 15:34:44 GMT -6
So what about NFL practice squads? I know all the NFL teams have them but, have all of the kids on the practice squad gone to college? And does anyone know what they get paid? Just, in the context of the original question, is "NFL practice squad player" a legitimate job option for someone straight from high school? How about after a couple of years of JUCO?
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Post by coachd5085 on May 4, 2009 16:02:59 GMT -6
So what about NFL practice squads? I know all the NFL teams have them but, have all of the kids on the practice squad gone to college? And does anyone know what they get paid? Just, in the context of the original question, is "NFL practice squad player" a legitimate job option for someone straight from high school? How about after a couple of years of JUCO? Probably not. The NFL practice squads are an additional 8 players. Each NFL team is probably carrying 80 signed players right now (new draftees are not signed, but new free agents are) and 95%(at least) of those players have 3 or more years of college playing experience. . The NFL will cut to 53 by camp. Some of those drafted (and had at least 3 years college ball under their belt) won't make the cut, and most of those undrafted free agents will get cut as well. They can keep 8 of those guys on the practice squad.
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Post by dacoordinator on May 5, 2009 11:48:58 GMT -6
ha ha... my dad always told me this... its only 2 ways out this house.....you can either go left or right....the right was college and to the left was the Army.
ha ha... at the time the military base was literally to the left.
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Post by videocoach on May 5, 2009 11:56:53 GMT -6
Remember back about 5-6 years ago when several high school players sued after Maurice Clarett sought to enter the NFL Draft? I wonder what would have happened if the NFL didn't change the rules to the current rules they have in place where you have to be three years out of school to enter the draft.
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Post by davecisar on May 5, 2009 14:09:51 GMT -6
How did that work out for Clarett, what is he up to these days?
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Post by phantom on May 5, 2009 15:27:03 GMT -6
Remember back about 5-6 years ago when several high school players sued after Maurice Clarett sought to enter the NFL Draft? I wonder what would have happened if the NFL didn't change the rules to the current rules they have in place where you have to be three years out of school to enter the draft. Probably not much. Does anybody know what happened to those kids who sued?
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stylee
Sophomore Member
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Post by stylee on May 5, 2009 15:59:42 GMT -6
Our semi-pro team has sent some guys with eligibility on to college ball. We've probably had 7 guys like that over the past 4 seasons.
There's been about 10 guys that went on to Arena ball of some variety in the same span. Only 1 of those made enough money to significantly offset travel costs for practice. Everyone else was pulling in the 200-250 a game that guys make in the smaller arena leagues.
I think MOST of my guys know they don't have NFL talent.
My quarterback might have the sort of raw ability (he's got a super arm and I promise that he's faster than probably 99% of pro QBs) that pros have, but since he's not polished enough at this point, he never will be - I don't see any NFL teams looking to teach a guy to play that position.
Semi-pro is good for a lot of things - it's fun to keep playing competitively and it's given some of our guys an opportunity for an education. But it's not good for creating millionaires (except Swann, I guess).
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Post by coachweav88 on May 5, 2009 18:42:22 GMT -6
How did that work out for Clarett, what is he up to these days? he's in jail. If you really want to know how he's doing, you can check his personal blog mauriceclarett.wordpress.com/![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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dustinwmills
Freshmen Member
"Make excellence a habit, not a hobby."
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Post by dustinwmills on May 6, 2009 7:21:22 GMT -6
I like what everyone is saying. As far as after High School, if they can't get a scholarship, as mentioned before, I think JUCOs are phenomenal for this. It's a cheap education (referring to the price, not the quality) and gives them the opportunity to play ball. Even if they don't catch on to a college program after that, they at least have quantifiable skills in the workplace.
Also, there are a TON of teams in Europe. Yes, it is a culture shock and a different environment, but it is an opportunity. Plus, you get to live in Europe, which is sweet. While the $$$ isn't great, it is getting better.
Lastly, prep schools. While most prep schools are "military" based, they do give the opportunity to play football and get an education. Also gives a good, disciplined environment for students to grow and get stronger on the field and academically. I know several success stories, none of which more than Larry Fitzgerald. He went to Valley Forge for a year, then transferred to Pitt...the rest is history.
So there are opportunities, yet they are limited, so bottom line is a player has to be good enough to make the team.
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stylee
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Post by stylee on May 6, 2009 9:00:02 GMT -6
How did that work out for Clarett, what is he up to these days? he's in jail. If you really want to know how he's doing, you can check his personal blog mauriceclarett.wordpress.com/![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) Thanks for that link.
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Post by brophy on May 6, 2009 11:02:43 GMT -6
How did that work out for Clarett, what is he up to these days? he's in jail. If you really want to know how he's doing, you can check his personal blog mauriceclarett.wordpress.com/![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) WOW......what if a schizophrenic wrote a blog..............that guy is completely insane
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Post by craines10 on May 7, 2009 23:43:59 GMT -6
Its hard enough to get ino the league after putting up numbers in college, After Mel Kiper gets done with you you go from a lock to get picked to being lucky to get hired at McDonalds. Getting there with no college stats you better know somebody who know a GM that owe them a favor
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