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Post by Coach Bennett on Apr 28, 2009 7:17:58 GMT -6
Obviously, getting and keeping as many kids as possible in your program is a top priority. And, we know that quitting anything makes it easier to quit again given the next difficult task.
That said, do any of you have a grace period at the beginning of camp where if a kid goes out for the team, they can say they tried it and leave without penalty or losing face?
In your mind is this a crusty can of worms not to be opened or a chance for dead weight/those not interested to remove themselves from your program?
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Post by cnunley on Apr 28, 2009 7:24:33 GMT -6
This year we're asking several athletes in our school that are 'basketball guys' to come out and try 7on7s and our 4 day camp in july which they have agreed. If after doing those things they are not willing to go the extra mile and officially play come august then they can leave and 'save face'
Come August though all bets are off
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Post by touchdownmaker on Apr 28, 2009 7:28:03 GMT -6
Exactly how DO YOU treat players who quit?
I see no reason to penalize a kid for quitting. Its not like they get black balled around here or anything. They just dont play and they miss out, thats penalty enough in my opinion. .
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Post by superpower on Apr 28, 2009 7:30:30 GMT -6
As I recall, it was knighter who gave me a classic response to a kid who wants to quit: "Sorry. Yesterday was the last day to quit."
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Post by bigm0073 on Apr 28, 2009 7:31:53 GMT -6
Obviously, getting and keeping as many kids as possible in your program is a top priority......
I disagree with that statement. We want kids who are good students, good kids and have a good work ethic... I am not a BIG numbers guy... My experience at other schools is sometimes having large numbers can cause problems and headaches... I like quality over quanity.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Apr 28, 2009 7:36:01 GMT -6
big- If you really believe in the benefits that a kid can get from participation in football then you would believe in being a numbers guy. Theres more to participating and being in the program than just being a great athlete and winning games right? Even a kid who is horrendous can get some real benefits in my experience. Just my two cents.
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Post by phantom on Apr 28, 2009 7:37:10 GMT -6
Obviously, getting and keeping as many kids as possible in your program is a top priority...... I disagree with that statement. We want kids who are good students, good kids and have a good work ethic... I am not a BIG numbers guy... My experience at other schools is sometimes having large numbers can cause problems and headaches... I like quality over quanity. I agree. Raw numbers have never been a high priority for us, at least at the varsity level. I am kind of puzzled by the question. Once the kid has quit he's out of the program. What can we do to him, grace period or not?
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Post by Wingtman on Apr 28, 2009 7:50:31 GMT -6
Let me piggyback on this thread if I may... What do you do about kids who quit, then a week later want to come back?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2009 8:23:32 GMT -6
We push them hard through camp, we tell them this is where the'll want to quit. we tell them we understand, but we also mantor them through it by pointing out that everyone's going through it. We tell them that camp is hell, and to get to heaven sometimes you gotta go through hell. We keep reinforcing that practices will get harder and harder, but after camp they are only 3 nights a week. Practices are actually alot asier, but we tell them that to see who's committed.
What do I think of kids that quit and return..nothing bad really, sometimes that's what kids need. Does t mean he'll quit again...possibly, but it also means he might not. I always welcome them back with open arms, but that doesn't change what they are going to have to do.
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Post by Coach Bennett on Apr 28, 2009 8:34:02 GMT -6
Obviously, getting and keeping as many kids as possible in your program is a top priority...... I disagree with that statement. We want kids who are good students, good kids and have a good work ethic... I am not a BIG numbers guy... My experience at other schools is sometimes having large numbers can cause problems and headaches... I like quality over quanity. I agree. Raw numbers have never been a high priority for us, at least at the varsity level. I am kind of puzzled by the question. Once the kid has quit he's out of the program. What can we do to him, grace period or not? Some schools have a policy that if you quit a sport in one season you can't tryout for another the next. I'm on board one hundred percent regarding the framing of camp, talking about how hard work isn't punishment, it's about getting better, all that jazz. I guess I was just thinking of programs that I've read about where kids essentially said "no thank you" after a few days b/c of the intensity of practices and providing an out to those that "try and it's not for them." Every year camp seems to weed out a few that didn't quite know what they were getting into, etc. and, frankly, it was probably better for all that they did bail.
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Post by tog on Apr 28, 2009 8:36:34 GMT -6
we tell em the last day to quit was last week
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Post by reader on Apr 28, 2009 9:54:14 GMT -6
I think offering a grace period during the first week or so of the season encourages kids to participate that possibly would not even try especially if there are penalties in place that would keep him from participating in another sport later that year.
Also, it would give the coaches an opportunity to give the player a fair assessment of whether or not the coach believes he can help the team
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brimanning
Freshmen Member
Online Football Software
Posts: 39
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Post by brimanning on Apr 28, 2009 13:23:26 GMT -6
I've never heard of penalizing a kid for quitting anyway (I think not being part of the team and not playing is penalty enough later), but I like the point reader makes about a grace period encouraging kids to participate who otherwise wouldn't is really a great one.
Who knows if that basketball star is going to be your next great wide receiver. Could always be a diamond in the rough.
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Post by phantom on Apr 28, 2009 13:35:14 GMT -6
we tell em the last day to quit was last week I like it!! How do we treat them? Depends on why they quit. As much as we hate to admit it, football isn't for everyone. Yeah, that's why it doesn't bother us if they quit in preseason. Quitting during the season is irritating but other than not giving them a letter there's not really a penalty.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2009 13:50:05 GMT -6
we tell em the last day to quit was last week Just added that one to my repitoire
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Post by silkyice on Apr 28, 2009 13:59:06 GMT -6
Obviously, getting and keeping as many kids as possible in your program is a top priority...... I disagree with that statement. We want kids who are good students, good kids and have a good work ethic... I am not a BIG numbers guy... My experience at other schools is sometimes having large numbers can cause problems and headaches... I like quality over quanity. AMEN!!!!!!!
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Post by jpdaley25 on Apr 28, 2009 16:18:12 GMT -6
If I quit when it gets tough, Coach will still take me back after the rough part is over.
If I quit this year, Coach will still let me back next year.
Coach won't do anything too tough because he knows we'll quit and he won't have a team.
If I quit and come back, I can still be the starter in my old position because I'm better than anyone else he has.
I'm not getting to play much as a freshman and a sophomore, so I will just quit and come back my senior year.
If coach doesn't play me where I want to play, I will just quit.
If I'm not going to be the star, I will quit.
I can quit and come back as many times as I want to.
Those are the attitudes I faced when I first arrived at this school. That's how things had been here under the old head coach for some 13 years before I arrived. I have had just over 140 quitters in three years at a school of 220 kids.
I had to set some precedents:
1. If a senior quits he is done forever. I will not let him come back. 2. Anyone who does not go through two-a-days for any reason will sit out the first three games. 3. If anyone quits after practice in pads have begun, they are done for the season. They can come back after the season and try again. 4. If a skill position player quits, he begins the next year as a lineman. Quitters go to the bottom of the depth chart. 5. After you've quit twice, don't come ask to be allowed back on the team.
I realize that my situation is a bit unique and that I'm not even adressing the original question, but in the last 3 years I have become an authority on quitters. About half of the 144 kids who have quit have tried to come back. Many of those quit on the field time and time again, and I had to endure it because I didn't have anyone else. All but 4 have quit again.
Don't count on quitters
Be careful what kind of precedents you set and stick to your guns, or you could end up like the coach that I replaced. The bad precedents that he set backed him into a corners until the parents and the kids were running the program.
I learned this quote on this website and I love it. I have it in huge letters on the wall behind my desk:
"Get Committed, or Stay Quitted!"
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Post by fbdoc on Apr 28, 2009 17:30:06 GMT -6
At our school if a kid quits prior to the start of the first game there is no penalty. Once we get into playing games - if a kid asks to quit before the end of the season, we have a general policy (private school) that "suspends" the kid for 1 to 2 weeks of his next season, depending upon when they decide to quit. The coaches all agree to it and the kids all KNOW it and it has worked fairly well. Had to use it 3 times this year - once for a volleyball / soccer girl and then for 2 basketball / baseball players. Now, if a kid just walks away from the team without speaking with the coach, they are automatically suspended from the next season until the AD (me) reinstates them. If they "man up" and agree to tell the coach that they are quitting (and why) I have typically given them the 2 weeks at the start of the season. Our goal is to stick it out (in a positive manner) and keep them involved with the sport. Meet the challenges rather than quit. We do a lot of encouraging and counseling - sometimes its just not a good fit and we try make the "split" as painless as possible. But we definitely do not just let them walk away.
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Post by bigm0073 on Apr 28, 2009 18:12:07 GMT -6
TD Maker -
I never turn away a kid that WANTS to play. I have probably 10 kids on my roster that have the ability of my 20 month old son... But they are great program kids.... Work hard, never miss practice, good grades, high character kids. These kids always have a place in our program.
But if a kid is not a high character kid and has poor grades and does not come to team activities I quite frankly do not want him. In our program that kid will just weed himself out.
But I go back to my original statement - In our program quality not quantity. This system works for me ;D
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Post by jgordon1 on Apr 28, 2009 18:29:35 GMT -6
A question I have about quitting is, OK I am not glad you quit, I am not angry with you but don't try to be my buddy in the hallway. What do you do when these guys come up to you in the hallway. I am polite but act "uninterested" to them
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Post by coachwilley on Apr 28, 2009 18:29:39 GMT -6
Originally I thought it was quite selfish to think you could punish them for quiting, I didn't really see how that could be done. What are you going to do, be a jerk in the hallways? That's childish...However, after reading the posts on policies regarding the next sport I see what you mean. I could see that...
One policy we have in place is that you cannot join any activity after the first game takes place. As for quitting itself I have asked a few real great character kids (basketball players) to just give it a try. One of them was the hardest worker in the weightroom in the entire class. He did everything I asked but after the first scrimmage he came in to talk to me and explained that he hated the contact and it wasn't for him. Of course I try to talk them out of it but I think there's a lot to be said for how they quit. I usually try to involve there parents as well, but I've been fortunate enough to only lose 4-5 players in the last four years.
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Post by coachwilley on Apr 28, 2009 18:31:06 GMT -6
Jgordon, look at the post time...my last comment on the hallway wasn't a knock on you!
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Post by touchdownmaker on Apr 28, 2009 18:45:22 GMT -6
If I quit when it gets tough, Coach will still take me back after the rough part is over. If I quit this year, Coach will still let me back next year. Coach won't do anything too tough because he knows we'll quit and he won't have a team. If I quit and come back, I can still be the starter in my old position because I'm better than anyone else he has. I'm not getting to play much as a freshman and a sophomore, so I will just quit and come back my senior year. If coach doesn't play me where I want to play, I will just quit. If I'm not going to be the star, I will quit. I can quit and come back as many times as I want to. Those are the attitudes I faced when I first arrived at this school. That's how things had been here under the old head coach for some 13 years before I arrived. I have had just over 140 quitters in three years at a school of 220 kids. I had to set some precedents: 1. If a senior quits he is done forever. I will not let him come back. 2. Anyone who does not go through two-a-days for any reason will sit out the first three games. 3. If anyone quits after practice in pads have begun, they are done for the season. They can come back after the season and try again. 4. If a skill position player quits, he begins the next year as a lineman. Quitters go to the bottom of the depth chart. 5. After you've quit twice, don't come ask to be allowed back on the team. I realize that my situation is a bit unique and that I'm not even adressing the original question, but in the last 3 years I have become an authority on quitters. About half of the 144 kids who have quit have tried to come back. Many of those quit on the field time and time again, and I had to endure it because I didn't have anyone else. All but 4 have quit again. Don't count on quitters Be careful what kind of precedents you set and stick to your guns, or you could end up like the coach that I replaced. The bad precedents that he set backed him into a corners until the parents and the kids were running the program. I learned this quote on this website and I love it. I have it in huge letters on the wall behind my desk: "Get Committed, or Stay Quitted!" funny, that is my line. cant believe anyone used it. I have the same kind of attitudes that you talk about and what hurts is of course some of them are pretty good athletes but just do not want to work. Even their parents think we are too demanding??? I basically have some of the quitters coming back out this year and I have made it clear, THEY MUST MAKE ARRANGEMENTS TO PLAY, I DONT MAKE ARRANGEMENTS FOR THEM. our school is small so we need every student we can get but honestly I wont spend any energy on any kid that I sense does not want to be out there working towards our goals.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Apr 28, 2009 18:45:55 GMT -6
If I quit when it gets tough, Coach will still take me back after the rough part is over. If I quit this year, Coach will still let me back next year. Coach won't do anything too tough because he knows we'll quit and he won't have a team. If I quit and come back, I can still be the starter in my old position because I'm better than anyone else he has. I'm not getting to play much as a freshman and a sophomore, so I will just quit and come back my senior year. If coach doesn't play me where I want to play, I will just quit. If I'm not going to be the star, I will quit. I can quit and come back as many times as I want to. Those are the attitudes I faced when I first arrived at this school. That's how things had been here under the old head coach for some 13 years before I arrived. I have had just over 140 quitters in three years at a school of 220 kids. I had to set some precedents: 1. If a senior quits he is done forever. I will not let him come back. 2. Anyone who does not go through two-a-days for any reason will sit out the first three games. 3. If anyone quits after practice in pads have begun, they are done for the season. They can come back after the season and try again. 4. If a skill position player quits, he begins the next year as a lineman. Quitters go to the bottom of the depth chart. 5. After you've quit twice, don't come ask to be allowed back on the team. I realize that my situation is a bit unique and that I'm not even adressing the original question, but in the last 3 years I have become an authority on quitters. About half of the 144 kids who have quit have tried to come back. Many of those quit on the field time and time again, and I had to endure it because I didn't have anyone else. All but 4 have quit again. Don't count on quitters Be careful what kind of precedents you set and stick to your guns, or you could end up like the coach that I replaced. The bad precedents that he set backed him into a corners until the parents and the kids were running the program. I learned this quote on this website and I love it. I have it in huge letters on the wall behind my desk: "Get Committed, or Stay Quitted!" funny, that is my line. cant believe anyone used it. I have the same kind of attitudes that you talk about and what hurts is of course some of them are pretty good athletes but just do not want to work. Even their parents think we are too demanding??? I basically have some of the quitters coming back out this year and I have made it clear, THEY MUST MAKE ARRANGEMENTS TO PLAY, I DONT MAKE ARRANGEMENTS FOR THEM. our school is small so we need every student we can get but honestly I wont spend any energy on any kid that I sense does not want to be out there working towards our goals.
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burn
Sophomore Member
Posts: 181
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Post by burn on Apr 28, 2009 20:31:22 GMT -6
I want every kid to be in my program. I do not just want the good kids I want all the kids. I think a kid in football is better off than a kid not in football. If I did not believe that I would not coach. I think the positives from this sport should be given to everyone. I don't know how many gang bangers have become a part of this and their grades go up, they are in less trouble and better people. Sure we get some lemons but we get more that benefit in one way or another from football. Numbers don't matter to me but what makes up each one of those numbers does. If I have 80 kids that make it through a season I've got 80 kids that understand sacrifice, team and discipline. Also many of those so called gang bangers are now football players and identify with that.
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Post by bigm0073 on Apr 28, 2009 21:20:16 GMT -6
I am all about helping kids out and all... but I go back to the point -
I will not lower my expectations for any players. If the player meets them (Class, practice, offseason, behavior) then I am all about him.
If a player quits or is a kid lacking character, I will try and direct him the right way but he ultimatley has to do the work.
Back to quiters -
Every kid who quit last summer came back to me this spring and asked to be back on the team. I asked for TWO things -
1. Most recent report card with NO D or F 2. Two letters of recommendation from teachers and or administrators.
None of them have come back..... King of telling....
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burn
Sophomore Member
Posts: 181
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Post by burn on Apr 28, 2009 21:35:10 GMT -6
I think in another post a coach said it best. They are in your world when they are on the football team. If any of you have had to read any of the educational books there is one by an author Ruby Payne, I think that is her name. When they are in your classroom they follow your rules and they conform to that environment. If they quit the football team then they quit and you move on. I am not a fan of sitting them for their next season for any length of time. There are some other coaches at my school that ruin their sport. The example I give is a track coach that talks for forty minutes every practice after warm ups. This is not an exaggeration and the kids can not stand it. Many of the kids quit every year because they do not enjoy these talks that are 90% negative about how their generation is lazy and useless. I know this example is not the norm but if the kids that quit the track team had to sit then I would not have them for a period of time for my football season. So after too long of rant already I'll stop.
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Post by tog on Apr 29, 2009 0:13:13 GMT -6
ruby payne is a wise woman
when we get some of our basketball players back
it takes them a bit to relearn how to work and how to get here on time (and this disgusts me to no end because our basketball coach should be making them do this)
after they get here and start doing things right it is all good
they see our expectations and meet them
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Post by fbdoc on Apr 29, 2009 7:12:46 GMT -6
Burn - I hear what you're saying about Coach "Chatty". As the AD, I would have a nice (private) talk with him. Maybe he doesn't realize that he is wasting a lot of time - and driving kids off! Perhaps you could, as his peer, have that chat with him.
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Post by coachwilley on Apr 29, 2009 23:43:41 GMT -6
I think it is inherent that our interest in the kid as an individual will diminish if he decides to quit. I mean chit, do you keep track of all ex-girlfriends lives and continue to help them out? I'm pretty sure MY wife would frown on that. If you have the kid in class that's one thing but if he's just a kid in the school and you see him in the halls...yea, BS all you want but you aren't interested in that kid like you once were. He's outside the circle...that's just how it is, you guys no longer share the same experiences, the same time commitments or the same struggle. I'm probably a bit more linear than most I guess, but the kids who really irritate me are the kids who DO NOT play, then every monday they want to talk about the game from friday and of course you know...they have all the answers. That conversation usually takes place exactly once in my class and the future "never played but was great and know everything parent" gets a glimpse at my non-tactful side...which can be a little mean spirited but is 100% accurate and brutally honest. Every kid on our team is literally a student of mine. Again, I guess it depends on how they quit. Where they a man about it or, in the words of DC, a chicken chit.
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