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Post by kcbazooka on Mar 27, 2009 5:52:44 GMT -6
I used to practice on saturdays but don't anymore. We are a co-op now and there are too many things to schedule around. Not only do you have to deal with one school having band, FFA, FBLA, Speech, you have two schools to juggle time around.
my staff also gets Saturdays off -- we stay friday night and copy the games for the staff to take home and they are expected to watch it on their own before Sunday morning's coach's meeting. I can tell if they haven't and will make sure it gets done.
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Post by bigm0073 on Mar 27, 2009 6:11:58 GMT -6
Do any of you do this (I might have missed it)
Bring players in on Monday at around 6:30 AM to watch the tape with them for an hour? That way you still have your afternoon meeting and practice to focus on the opponent..... Anyone try this and any thoughts....
We meet as a staff Sunday AM I am just trying to see alternatives beside Saturday...
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Post by 19delta on Mar 27, 2009 7:06:31 GMT -6
Does anyone grade game film? And, for those of you guys who bring kids in on Saturday to watch film, how many of you get to watch the film before the kids see it?
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Post by touchdownmaker on Mar 27, 2009 7:22:32 GMT -6
I have to watch my film at least 3 times before saturday am. That usually means I am up all night, sleep two or three hours and then off to the school. I have the film broken down, kids graded and helmet stickers figured out. I have stats done and multiple phone calls and emails out to television stations etc. (they dont give you much time to break down film before they are all over you about stats and what not). My assistants do not watch film (not yet) until sat am.
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Post by bigm0073 on Mar 27, 2009 8:23:11 GMT -6
Coach,
Do you not have your position coaches grade the players and figure out the stickers? That just seems like a TON for you to do if you have willing and able bodies to help.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Mar 27, 2009 8:25:21 GMT -6
Baby steps. we just are not at a point yet where my assistants know what to look for.
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Post by Coach Huey on Mar 27, 2009 9:05:12 GMT -6
Baby steps. we just are not at a point yet where my assistants know what to look for. having poor coaches is a baby step? to me, that's something i would think you would be addressing from day one with the utmost haste and importance.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Mar 27, 2009 9:07:18 GMT -6
Not poor coaches Huey, inexperienced coaches. Good men, just learning the game.
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Post by Coach Huey on Mar 27, 2009 10:40:17 GMT -6
Not poor coaches Huey, inexperienced coaches. Good men, just learning the game. either way ... addressing the staff is a major issue, not a baby step. if someone can't grade a film - and I mean NO ONE on staff - then that is not where you obviously want your staff to be ... so, that is what I would be addressing as a major step rather than as a baby step. if they can't see what is needed/expected from watching film then how can they teach it to begin with? i.e. if i don't know what a good technique by the OL is and the proper align/assign/execute steps per a given play then how can i even teach those in the first place. poor coaches was probably the wrong words ... just, seems like if my guys were inexeprienced - especially all of them - then we would be hard-core stressing that area from day one. helmet stickers and pride points are pretty secondary.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Mar 27, 2009 11:05:29 GMT -6
Huey, Im not sure what the points and stickers have to do with teaching my coaches their responsibilities but I will play the game here. We meet every month, email and share video every day. My coaches are in coaching school so to speak. You dont give the student teachers control over a class until they are ready to take control. My guys are not ready to grade film.
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Post by Coach Huey on Mar 27, 2009 14:39:10 GMT -6
i guess what i'm saying is that i can't fathom this concept ... staffing isn't done like that where i'm at. meaning, you don't see an entire staff of 'student teachers' ... staffs are assembled with various parts so that the program can be built - but it hits the ground running with some ready to go, experienced coaches - while those less-experienced guys are brought along. i can see how your dynamic may be different, just seems foreign to me that an entire varsity staff would fall into that category.
how does practice work when your guys aren't able to teach the necessary skills?
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Post by touchdownmaker on Mar 28, 2009 3:05:49 GMT -6
Trust me, its foreign to me too!
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Post by irishbulldog on Mar 28, 2009 6:05:54 GMT -6
Saturday Morning Schedule starts at 9am for players, 8am for coaches.
8am - Head Coach meets with staff to discuss likes and dislikes from the night before.
Varisty: Part 1 - dynamic warm up, light agilities and lift. Coaches watch film of Friday night Part 2 - film of game from Friday night
JV: Part 1 - Practice in helmets only. Go through offense and defense individual, go through plays on air, and adjustments to anything new from opponent. Part 2 - Lift
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slimbo7722
Sophomore Member
Some days yoour the dog...some days you are the hydrant.
Posts: 139
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Post by slimbo7722 on Mar 28, 2009 7:47:49 GMT -6
Right there with you khalfie.
Pesonally, I wouldn't want to be part of a staff who does not put in the hours of film, planning, studyying, bringing kids up on Saturday etc. Doesn't seem like your priorities are right if you don't. Hell it is football season. Doesn't last forever and not long enough for some. It absolutely aggrivates the living spit out of me to be sitting there on Saturday morning, grading film and whatever else needs to be done and have someone bitch and whine about having to be there early or at all.
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 28, 2009 9:21:43 GMT -6
Huey, Im not sure what the points and stickers have to do with teaching my coaches their responsibilities but I will play the game here. We meet every month, email and share video every day. My coaches are in coaching school so to speak. You dont give the student teachers control over a class until they are ready to take control. My guys are not ready to grade film. I am with Huey here. How can they not be ready to grade film?? If they can't tell what their players are doing wrong, how on earth can they tell them what to do right? What do they do at practice? Maybe I define grading film differently, but really all that needs to be done is answer two questions 1) Did the kid execute his technique properly 2 )Did the kid give 100% effort through out the entire play Plus-Minus good enough for starters. For the coach to be able to work with a player during individual time, he has to know what that player is supposed to be doing. If that player does that on film, it is a plus. If not, it is a minus As far as helmet stickers, I would argue that the time spent (wasted in my opinion, but that was hashed out in another thread) doing all the work to tabulate that could be better spent either working with those coaches, OR SLEEPING...keeping you fresher and therefore more productive. In fact, it would probably be more productive to just grade your positional players, have the coaches grade theirs, and then, rather than watching the film again for stickers, you go back and grade the entire team, comparing your grades to the coaches.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Mar 28, 2009 13:09:00 GMT -6
Great thing about the internet, everyone has the chance to share their opinions.
I love stickers, my kids love the stickers, the coaches love the stickers, the parents love the stickers. We certainly view them as anything but a waste of time. They are a very big part of our program. We view them as a way to recognize performance, standards, goals, achievement of many things beyond the almighty win or loss. They have proven to be very effective for everything from Academics to attendance and hustle. Each to his own on that.
Regarding inexperienced coaches and grading film. well, I suppose it depends on your own level of expectations for the actual grading process. I wouldnt ask a substitute teacher to grade my kids papers and right now my assistants are sort of like "subs" in that way. Over time as they get to know the material (and they are working tirelessly to learn it) they will be able to do more than follow my lesson plans, they will be able to write and evaluate their own.
every situation is different and mine is unique in that we truly didnt know each others names before the season started.
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 28, 2009 13:31:24 GMT -6
Regarding inexperienced coaches and grading film. well, I suppose it depends on your own level of expectations for the actual grading process. I wouldnt ask a substitute teacher to grade my kids papers I think we all understand this. and right now my assistants are sort of like "subs" in that way. Over time as they get to know the material (and they are working tirelessly to learn it) they will be able to do more than follow my lesson plans, they will be able to write and evaluate their own. I don't really think the sub analogy is appropriate though. Your Sub is not being asked to TEACH your kids anything either. I guess what I am asking (and what I think Huey is asking) is what exactly do your coaches do during practice if they don't know enough to tell if a player is performing his job or not? I understand you have an unfamiliar staff...but being unfamiliar is irrelevant to fulfilling expectations. I guess I am just having a hard time wrapping my head around a header feeling his coaches aren't qualified enough to grade the very players they are spending 4-5 days a week teaching. You say "they don't know the material", so what exactly do they do all week during practice? If they don't know the material well enough to grade out a linebacker on steps, keys, and fits..how can they possibly TEACH an LB steps, keys and fits? As far as the stickers, just trying to give you a different perspective and help you develop your program. With limited time, and unlimited tasks, a coach has to prioritize. I would put teaching my coaches ahead of watching film a 3rd time to do sticker points. You say they are working tirelessly to learn, which is good...so now you need to ask yourself if you are doing the best possible job leading them, and if you are utilizing your time and other assets to the best of their ability. I just feel that time spent doing sticker points would better serve your program elsewhere, unless your league has a special sticker collection award
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Post by touchdownmaker on Mar 28, 2009 16:31:17 GMT -6
They shadow me. Or they did. They should be much more independent in this second year. That of course makes our practices much more efficient.
Each coach has to learn and master his one position and create a position manual complete with drills. Each will take a written test so I can assess their comfort and level of mastery.
To help you better understand my situation- Imagine a coach who has never worked with his assistants - just met them. they show up at the field (after missing much of camp) and are expected to coach in a system they do not know. They have no idea what any of the terminology or techniques are. they cant teach without any knowledge of the subject matter.
The head coach has to coach them ON THE FLY so to speak. "Coach, this drill is to teach the linebackers to read through the line to the near back. That is this backers near back, that back over there is the other backers near back. Watch as we mirror the first step. Ok great, now watch as they react to the guard key pulling opposite the near backs movement" - after 3-5 minutes "can you keep this drill going for another 5 minutes, emphasize points x, y and z"
coach then moves on to the defensive end training:
"coach this drill it to teach the defensive ends to wrong shoulder a kick out block" ( "whats a kick out block? what does wrong shoulder mean? ") see my point?
Coach gets the drill going, the assistant, like a sub, tries to keep it going the best he can based on the lesson. He provides corrective feedback based on what he has quickly learned from the head coach. In the future he should be able to set up that drill and run it. That does not make him an expert at that position for sure.
Coach then moves on to the dbacks. "coach, today we teach the boys how we use press coverage, lets go through the progression with the kids" - after break it down and beginning drill "can you keep this going emphasizing x y an z? great.." coach then moves back to the backer station:
" thanks coach, howd it go?"
"what happens when the guard does not pull and the back just sits there to pass block?"
"ok we can work on the pass coverage reactions"
A head coach has to coach his assistants so they can coach the players. If you have not had an opportunity to coach your assistants you are going to have an interesting season, particularly if your assistants are ROOKIE COACHES with no football background.
"whats a 3 tech?"
"what do you mean by downhill?"
"what does false step mean?"
"whats a trap?"
'whats a buck sweep?"
"whats a wing t?"
" what does pull mean?"
"what does veer mean?"
blast iso power counter waggle wedge boot sprint draw bubble screen force contain spill read
I mean there are a million things to teach a new coach. Not every situation is the same. If I was a spanish teacher and my lesson was to sing the star spangled banner in spanish theres no way someone who didnt speak spanish can grade my students. the thing to do is to use the bodies in the best way you can until they know the language. My guys did alot of tackling and blocking drills, ball drills, discipline, locker room supervision, weight room supervision, lots of gophering and even paper work. I did the majority of the teaching for the techniques and terms. Over time some coaches learned faster than others. Fortunately I have materials (handouts and the like) for my assistants so they could study at home.
needless to say, I am very excited about year two with an opportunity to turn more responsibility over to my assistants.
Again with the stickers- If I am sitting at home doing stats at 5 am on Saturday and I have "Homer" down for 3 tackles I know he gets a sticker. What time does that take? If I see he has a sack and an interception I know he gets two more stickers. Again, what did that take? I am going to do the stats anyhow. In fact, we have people that do stats for me, I just prefer to double check their work and I do that at home, as much because I enjoy it as anything. I cant see having my coaches at my house at 5 am - they will benefit from showing up saturday am to listen to the play by play film break down with the players as they learn. ( thats how it worked in year one anyhow). This year obviously they will be expected to see and recognize the mistakes but that doesnt mean I am going to slack off and not grade it myself.
the priority for me this year in the off season is/ was DEFENSE. I feel that we can score points. I feel we need to tackle better, we need to be faster in our alignment and react to keys and reads with more confidence and discipline. We should improve in that area since I dont have to coach all phases with little assistance. We should increase reps and have more experienced eyes making corrections. I am quite sure that our saturday am film sessions are extremely useful to our inexperienced coaches. They see and hear the info just as the players do and after 10 weeks, its like having been at 10 coaching clinics. (for those that were with me for the whole season)- The stickers are not the priority, the performance and expectations of our athletes are the priority, the stickers represent accomplishment. Those things are not to be ignored. The stickers will stay, they are important to all of us. I appreciate your different ideas though. I look forward to hearing about your experiences as a HC someday.
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Post by phantom on Mar 28, 2009 20:27:07 GMT -6
Coach, good luck. Unfortunately I see a short career.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Mar 29, 2009 3:00:05 GMT -6
Lets hope not. We had a good season despite that very difficult situation. Year two for the staff certainly looks brighter with all of the education we have been doing. We also have more kids out and have improved our strength.
Practices are designed to put the emphasis in defense first at our small school and each coach will have his position to own and teach.
This is a pretty typical practice outline for us:
2:30-3:00 feed the kids, study hall. 3:00-3:30 linemen lift/backs work indy skills in the gym 3:30-4:00 backs lift/linemen work schemes and skills in the gym 4:00 all dress 4:10 flex and form 4:20 tackling stations ( 4 stations ) 4:30 Individual defense ( tnt, linebackers, dbacks) 5:00 group defense or team defense 5:15 specials 5:30-6:15 Team O
what I did to make sure I could work with the offensive line and the offensive backs is to have one of my assistants supervise the weight room. I took another assistant with me into the gym. This season we should have 2 coaches assigned to each position group and I will be able to float a bit more to oversee all of the drills and instruction.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Mar 29, 2009 3:13:19 GMT -6
We don't grade it but the reason coaches are in early is so we can watch it before we watch it with the kids. I take the game film home with me and I see it 2-3 times before we watch it with the kids. I would say it's because I'm extremely anal about it or I like to be thorough...both of which may be true, but really, I just like to do it. I am with you on this. Maybe its being anal or maybe its just loving it. Personally I cant wait to watch the film. Nothing makes me crabbier than poor film too. I never could understand those coaches who, immediately after the game go home without film?! I always made sure I had film when I was an assistant. I think as an assistant coach I watched the film more intensely than anyone on the staff. I had notes taken and a practice plan in place for the week before the Sat meeting. I just liked doing that. I never understood position coaches who didnt value film - ie didnt seem to sit still during the film review - running off with the sports page to bathroom or running out for coffee or whatever. Nothing worse too than being on a staff that doesnt watch film together.
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Post by eghscoach on Mar 31, 2009 6:16:53 GMT -6
Each situation is unique. Although I would love to bring kids in Sat AM it's not realistic in our school. Too many need ot work, rides are too big a challenge in a large (geographically) county school, etc. Coaches do need to work hard, but family time and rest are important too. Plan. We found staff off Saturday and then start Sun @7am worked best for us. Then coaches could help kids get to unoffcial visits, more rested and refreshed, so can truly get after it ALL day Sunday. P.S. But if you played in the mud, make sure you start washing the uniforms Friday night!
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Post by brophy on Mar 31, 2009 8:51:02 GMT -6
I've been on staffs that have done it both ways. Come in at 8am, run an 800m or do 100y strides or walk-thru STs....be out within an hour (feed them juice and donuts)
I have heard all the arguments for bringing kids in on Saturdays, but in my experience, I don't see the benefit. It creates more headaches than it is worth (IMO) and (IMO) you get very little in return.
The method I thought was more efficient was Saturday off, then position break-down on Monday film study 10 min cut, then an 8 min cut review of the next opponent. It puts more onus on the staff to get their stuff together, but it is about delivering the information to the kids as fast and efficient as possible. We would lift on Mondays, anyway, and if they aren't in 'condition' by regular season, then (IMO) we failed in the off-season.
Weekend, of course, the staff needs to get together to game plan and be on point for Monday to carry through the week, but in the stretch of a season we spend so much intense time with the kids, the 2 days off (weekend) are needed because even I would get sick of seeing myself 6 days a week for 4 months.
I don't see the (false) argument that if they don't come in on Saturday than you are missing something. If it works for you - great. If that is what you want to do - super. I just don't see the absolute need of Saturday, or the strawman that if the kids don't come in on Saturday morning than they will be / we are encouraging the kids to rob liquor stores and rape villages.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Mar 31, 2009 8:54:01 GMT -6
In some cases, despite the law of diminished returns on the investment, its an expectation. To lose games and NOT come in on saturdays just might be enough reason to be fired. IF you are losing and not doing sat, add them. On the other hand if you are losing and putting in tons of time, some ADS might suggest you back off the kids some for morale.
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Post by brophy on Mar 31, 2009 8:57:19 GMT -6
In some cases, despite the law of diminished returns on the investment, its an expectation. so are 3 hour practices or 2-a-days..... if you are a slave to tradition, you aren't serving your immediate needs. Doing things because it is what our old Coach Peebody did it, not because it serves our best interest, or because I even know WHY we do it....... The biggest evolution-killer in football is the " way we used to do it" BS Its all about the bottom line - harder isn't necessarily smarter
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