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Post by brophy on Feb 12, 2009 7:45:22 GMT -6
know how to fight? www.iveybusinessjournal.com/article.asp?intArticle_ID=771 www.aptimise.com/article12.06.html A skill not inherent in everyone, but are there ways you and your staff cultivate a deeper appreciation for CONFLICT in your program / among your staff?
Getting along may not always be conducive to the overall health of the program. Tearing each other apart can be the quickest way to sabotage a season. Swallowing thoughts and resentments is evidenced in many of the coordinator to head coach threads on here.
Are there ways in which you and your staff have found ways to build respect within your group, to ensure everyone has an opportunity to share, contribute, and receive?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2009 9:00:56 GMT -6
Never go to bed angry. Oops, that's with my wife.
Gotta have respect away from the field and the game. It's easier to listen to a guy passionately speak about something he believes in concerning the game if it's a guy you have a bbq with on Saturdays.
Gotta have glue. We turn a lot of guys away every year who want to coach with us, but they wouldn't fit in with our personality so they really wouldn't help things move forward.
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Post by coachcb on Feb 12, 2009 9:20:26 GMT -6
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Post by dubber on Feb 12, 2009 9:28:35 GMT -6
Some may say our staff is a little too egalitarian. However, I loved the fact that as a young guy, I can throw out my 2 pennies and I actually get listened too.
We are a staff of 5, and the end of every weight session is some informal chalk talk/drill talk/technique talk.
Usually someone has an idea, grabs the dry erase marker and throws it out there. We have an unwritten rule the guy gets to speak and explain himself first. Then, we get to ask questions.
Conflict resolution is pretty easy, because we are upfront and honest with one another, but we know who has the final say.
I may not like the way we are running Hitch, but our OC has the final call. After I voice my objections, he makes the call, and I move on.
Hierarchy is sooooo important in organizations.
Now, the other OL coach and myself-----we will probably have a shouting match or two during season over personnel, practice planning, etc.
That's a case where we are equals, and we really need to hash it out in order to reach that better decision. Again, if our OC wants to, he'll make the final call......and then, we move on.
Have trouble moving on?
Then we have a conflict of the counter-productive variety.
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Post by tog on Feb 12, 2009 9:32:16 GMT -6
basically
they have to be willing to 1. spend some time to hash things out
2. not give up so easy
3. when/if they are overuled by those in charge---make sure the kids never know the difference
4. if the ideas have merit and can be meshed with the overall vision of the head coach then #3 won't be that big a deal
5. have a thick skin
6. have a sense of humor
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Post by dubber on Feb 12, 2009 9:41:51 GMT -6
I also think any good staff has a blend of personalities. Too much of anything is not good. For example: when I think of Oline coaches, I think of big ol' nasty guys with tobacco spit stains on the corner of their mouth and beard, extreme highly intense guys, yellers, screamers, spitters, cussers who love nothing more than finding an all you can eat china buffet at every clinic. Great dudes I understand, but you can't have a whole staff of them. There has to be someone there to put their arm around the kid and tell them "you don't really suck, we all know a crow didn't chit you on a rock for the sun to hatch you out. you know coach just gets a little fired up sometimes and he knows you're better than you are showing." Got to have complimentary personalities. . I haven't laughed out loud at something on this board in months....that was great. The point is great too. A staff full of Mr. Rodgers, or a staff full of Stalins isn't the best mix. I think a big point tog brought up in his list is making sure the kids aren't confused/feel division. When I become an OC I will be very open to different ideas.......the one thing I will not tolerate (what I will be very Stalin about) is a position coach who is not on the same page. By God, we just spent countless hours of meetings, finally deciding to Vertical set on our pass pro. If I look over at the OL indy's period and they are quick setting.......there will be WW tres' in the coaches office after practice.......important to note, in the coaches office. Kids sense division, and if they think coach A is doing something different from coach B, there is an implication that one of them is wrong. I don't care if we vertical set or quick set (well I do, but that's not the point)......as long as we as a staff are on the same page and know what we are doing.
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Post by fatkicker on Feb 12, 2009 9:57:31 GMT -6
important thing mentioned above....
as long as the coaches on the staff know the pecking order then arguments can be productive.....
all should have an opinion, but the header makes the call.....and assistants shouldn't run to the principal or booster club every time he disagrees with the header....or wears his emotions on his sleeve in front of the kids......
or simply put, just be professional......do your job....
what did coach boone say? "i ain't ever seen an assistant coach's name in the paper for losing a game."
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Post by brophy on Feb 12, 2009 10:06:07 GMT -6
all should have an opinion, but the header makes the call.....and assistants shouldn't run to the principal or booster club every time he disagrees with the header....or wears his emotions on his sleeve in front of the kids...... that is kind of the point - and what the links direct to. Have (and encourage) the knock-down-drag-outs with conviction (not the nodding agreement on 'what should we have for dinner?') to challenge the way WE think (as a staff). The more we argue / conflict, the more certain we will be that we're doing the right thing, and ensure we are all on the same page. This isn't about 'speaking your piece' as much as it is challenging the way we do things. Sure, all decisions ultimately lay on the Header, but the point of 'fighting' is to exhaust all avenues (and effort) which circumvents any hurt feelings (nothing is left to interpretation) or back-biting (going over your head)......and as the studies (links) indicate, efficiency and innovation.
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Post by jgordon1 on Feb 12, 2009 10:20:13 GMT -6
I was on a staff where a coach didn't outright backstab the OC but made sly under the breath comments in front of players about a play/ formation or what have you. It didn't take long for the players to divide and conquer. I was a young guy at the time and recognized what was going on and didn't have the nuts to say something... regret it to this day. the responsible person apologizeded to evreyone about ten years later. This person was and still is IMO one of the smartest football people I know in the game... way..way smarter than me. just goes to show that football smarts doesn't always equate to winning
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Post by touchdownmaker on Feb 12, 2009 10:27:25 GMT -6
So far we dont even consider fighting. Probably have not worked together long enough.
I am getting together with one coach and his son this weekend. Just to watch film and show him how our defense works ....and doesnt. sort of a private clinic. I think that often when there are fights in a staff its because guys on staff a) dont really "get it" when it comes to what the header is trying to do and b) everyone has their own agenda instead of being on the same page or c) the HC is a boob. ha ha.
I am quite sure that most of our "fights" in the near future will be over playing time for the sons on the team ha ha.
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Post by shields on Feb 12, 2009 11:06:39 GMT -6
Every staff I have been on has had their share of conflict...some have turned into knock down drag out fights...but in the end:
WHAT HAPPENS BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, STAYS THERE.
The worst thing that can happen is for dissention among staff members to flow out onto the practice field. As said earlier, the kids will feel it. On the field, everyone must be on the same page. Period!
Fight like heck behind closed doors...but it must stay in that meeting room. Passion for what you believe in is a good thing, but the coordinators and ultimately the head coach have the last say.
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Post by warrior53 on Feb 12, 2009 11:15:16 GMT -6
Great topic. I have been on staffs that have no idea how to confront each other. Pretty funny looking back, not fun when I was there. When someone disagreed with someone it just got quiet and everyone was sitting on their hands. Lot's more fun when you can hash things out respectfully.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Feb 12, 2009 11:20:48 GMT -6
Couple of years ago I was on staff and this coach whips out "URBAN MEYERS INTERNET PLAYBOOK"
OK, I WAS READY TO FIGHT. We had no idea how to coach the stuff in that play book and had no business talking about whole sale changes (coming off playoff season).
What would you have done???
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Post by warrior53 on Feb 12, 2009 11:24:08 GMT -6
Put your dukes up!
What happened?
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Post by touchdownmaker on Feb 12, 2009 11:29:35 GMT -6
I left. fight or flight I guess.
Why is it always the receivers coaches that bring in all this college stuff? Our qbs never watch film and our offensive lines only got maybe 15 minutes of indy time. I like to fight with the receivers coach.
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Post by kylem56 on Feb 12, 2009 11:51:03 GMT -6
nothing a few cold beers cant fix
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Post by airraider on Feb 12, 2009 11:51:41 GMT -6
Couple of years ago I was on staff and this coach whips out "URBAN MEYERS INTERNET PLAYBOOK" OK, I WAS READY TO FIGHT. We had no idea how to coach the stuff in that play book and had no business talking about whole sale changes (coming off playoff season). What would you have done??? Sorry about that coach.. I think I was the one who put that playbook out there.. the 104 page one.. lol.. I kicked our WR coach in the knee this year.. does that count??
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coachgeorge51
Sophomore Member
Cliches and mottos is mindless verbal nonsense.
Posts: 151
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Post by coachgeorge51 on Feb 12, 2009 12:03:45 GMT -6
I think tension on a staff is a productive, good thing when it is upfront and out in the open. Too me, guys who just sit there and are quiet, don't offer anything, or willing to speak up either don't know anything about football or being passive-aggressive, in which case, probably backstabbing, disloyal turds.
If you they won't offer up, talk, debate, argue, etc., then they don't care................I sometimes try to pick an argument just to see who really cares. You can sense it and feel it.
Now, I am in a major rebuilding project so I am trying to test my assistants, but, hell, even in my former staffs where we won 90% of our games, we were at each other's throats and respected the hell out of each other - because we sacrificed, worked, and killed ourselves for the kids.
Those who don't push, don't care. I don't trust you unless you are willing to knuckle up.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Feb 12, 2009 12:38:24 GMT -6
I just love when someone argues FOR LESS WORK. Unreal.
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Post by coachcb on Feb 12, 2009 13:06:18 GMT -6
We have "discussions" over ideas and suggestions that fall within our scheme. These may get a little heated and that's fine, it's how we get better. You can't help but learn something when you're forced to look at something from someone else's perspective.
If you have a suggestion that falls outside of the scheme or breaks our rules, don't waste the breath. We run a our 4-3 with a specific set of rules; if you decide that we need to run a 3-3-5 this week and are going to argue that point, you're going to get shut down by the DC and everyone else in a heartbeat.
When we ran veer, offensive discussions were initially a pain in the neck. The HC and OC wanted assistants to have ownership, so we talked over every suggestion that was made. The final answer was almost always "NO, IT DOESN'T FIT INTO OUR SYSTEM". So, after a week of this, they would start every discussion by asking if we had suggestions that "FIT INTO THE SYSTEM".
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Post by warrior53 on Feb 12, 2009 13:19:07 GMT -6
I think tension on a staff is a productive, good thing when it is upfront and out in the open. Too me, guys who just sit there and are quiet, don't offer anything, or willing to speak up either don't know anything about football or being passive-aggressive, in which case, probably backstabbing, disloyal turds. If you they won't offer up, talk, debate, argue, etc., then they don't care................I sometimes try to pick an argument just to see who really cares. You can sense it and feel it. Now, I am in a major rebuilding project so I am trying to test my assistants, but, hell, even in my former staffs where we won 90% of our games, we were at each other's throats and respected the hell out of each other - because we sacrificed, worked, and killed ourselves for the kids. Those who don't push, don't care. I don't trust you unless you are willing to knuckle up. I thought I liked to argue!!! Dad-gum!!!! ;D
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Feb 12, 2009 13:53:53 GMT -6
I think that often when there are fights in a staff its because guys on staff a) dont really "get it" when it comes to what the header is trying to do and b) everyone has their own agenda instead of being on the same page I'm with you here. I don't like when staffs fight all the time for these reasons as well. Most arguements I encounter are ill-natured and stem from someone's personal agenda...rarely are the arguements directed truly for the good of the team/organization. For that reason, I tend to immediately think they're "missing the boat" - they argue just to argue or here themselves talk. Resentment is a personal issue- if I as a coordinator resent something the HC does then most of the time I need to swallow my pride and deal with it...it's his program. I'm not here to change him. If I feel strongly about something I'll bring it to his attention- express my discontent...Of course there is a line that when crossed will result in someone having to go, but for the most part I beleive these things are the assistant's problem.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Feb 12, 2009 14:25:01 GMT -6
We had guys that would talk about how we need to put in a screen game (we already had it in and have been running it WELL all season) or guys that would talk about "bend but do not break" being better than "attacking" while having absolutely no clue as to what we really work on all week.
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Post by Coach Huey on Feb 12, 2009 16:14:44 GMT -6
what are you "arguing" about? does each person involved in the discussion (arguement) have data (reality not perception) that supports his view/opinion? can each individual listen to the other side and appreciate their reasoning (data) as a possible and viable solution? can a compromise be reached or should a compromise be reached? if it isn't a compromiseable scenario, can the 'loser' accept the final decision and follow it while putting behind his idea or, at the very least, shelving it until the next time a similar discussion arises further down the road?
discussions are good. one guy saying "this is the way" may not always be. but, arguements with little viable references to the why and the how we will go about it are futile.
good find, brophy...
many times, arguements can lead to production ... a better way to do things or a more efficient way.
but, even a great idea at school A may not be quite as beneficial to do now that a coach is at school B. can he accept the given (proven) reasons why it isn't? if not, problems can arise.
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Feb 12, 2009 16:37:16 GMT -6
Thanks Brophy, this may be one of the finest posts in a while.
"A friend will tell you the truth," is important for all of us. We all have something to say, but in the end-I'm still the head coach. However, we all still have to work together.
Funny posts here too. We have need at least 1 "pain in the butt" coach. Mine is this grizzled old once-retired offensive line coach from Pennsylvania, great guy, knows the wing-t better than anyone. He and I have been known to fuss a little, but always with making the team better in mind.
Thanks Coach Huey for all you do. OJW
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Post by jhanawa on Feb 12, 2009 20:13:45 GMT -6
Nothing wrong with a constructive arguement, we still have them often. What will send me absolutely ape sheet is something being taught wrong on the field. When I see this I'll break the team for water and get the coaches together and fix it now, before something is taught wrong and has to be retaught. This rarely happens now as we've had the same staff together for several years (btw its a great, great advantage to have a quality staff, we are very lucky), but occasionally, in our old age, we'll have a flashback and have to get put back on track....lol
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Post by touchdownmaker on Feb 12, 2009 20:18:01 GMT -6
I once got into a bit of an arguement with an assistant coach over our summer practice schedule. Turns out his motivation was to put some calm to parents complaining about our demanding schedule that interfered with beach time. wtf. are you kidding me??? I have to ask coach "your beach time maybe?"
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Post by jgordon1 on Feb 13, 2009 0:47:33 GMT -6
what are you "arguing" about? does each person involved in the discussion (arguement) have data (reality not perception) that supports his view/opinion? can each individual listen to the other side and appreciate their reasoning (data) as a possible and viable solution? can a compromise be reached or should a compromise be reached? if it isn't a compromiseable scenario, can the 'loser' accept the final decision and follow it while putting behind his idea or, at the very least, shelving it until the next time a similar discussion arises further down the road? discussions are good. one guy saying "this is the way" may not always be. but, arguements with little viable references to the why and the how we will go about it are futile. good find, brophy... many times, arguements can lead to production ... a better way to do things or a more efficient way. but, even a great idea at school A may not be quite as beneficial to do now that a coach is at school B. can he accept the given (proven) reasons why it isn't? if not, problems can arise. If you are going to argue w/ me... you better have data meaning show me on film.. or give me some stats. that being said ...arguing and discussing are two different situations in my book. we are always talking and discussing personel just really bsing but sometimes you get the best ideas like that just talking. hey lets try... I can appreciate telling truth to power. Check out my sig tag. better to learn the truth from friends than enemies because they will tell you on game day
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Post by warrior53 on Feb 13, 2009 4:53:04 GMT -6
Great point dc!
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Post by Coach Huey on Feb 13, 2009 6:49:29 GMT -6
[ ...arguing and discussing are two different situations in my book. yeah, because in an arguement, no one is listening to the other side. simply stating your stance and not listening. in a discussion, one is stating their stance, supporting it with reasonable data, AND listening to the other's responses, suggestions, ideas, etc. much can be gained from "discussions" ... little to be gained from "arguements"... until they turn into "discussions" emotion, animation, 'heat' can exist in a discussion just like it does in an arguement. listening rarely exists in an arguement. what i'm meaning is, don't confuse "BS'ing" with nothing productive. don't confuse argueing with emotion (where i am right, you are wrong so i ain't listening to you... simply showing you MY way -- you doing likewise) for a productive discussion.
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