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Post by jhanawa on Jan 10, 2009 22:48:53 GMT -6
Coach Mahonz,
Starting here in August isn't an issue because of heat, we practice in the evenings and the weathers fine. Usually here, the weather stays hot until the end of Sept. anyway, so moving the start back a month wouldn't change anything weather wise. AZ sent several teams to Nationals this year, I think it would be an big issue not competing in Nationals. Having an unlimited division here for older boys, or anywhere for that matter, isn't a fix IMO because the problem starts at the lower levels and those bigger kids get turned away. Change needs to happen at the lower levels in order to retain the kids. I think there is too much of a spread in age and not enough spread in weight, the key factor with youth is age/maturity/experience, not size. For example, in most cases a 10yr old that has played 3 years of football is going to blow an newbie 8 year old up, even if the 8 year old is much bigger. This is going to discourage that 8yr old from continuing. These weight limits have been encourage by over protective mommies, IMO the danger is with the large gaps in age. I think a max. of 1 year age difference and a staggered weight scale makes more sense. For example:
8-9 max 120 grades 2-3
9-10 max 140 grades 3-4
10-11 max 160 grades 4-5
11-12 max 180 grades 5-6
12-13 max 200 grades 6-7
13-14 max 250 grades 7-8
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Post by mahonz on Jan 10, 2009 23:36:21 GMT -6
Coach Mike, Texas High Schools and subsequently most youth leagues in our state utilize NCAA rules. Coach I realize that Texas and Mass follow NCAA rules, which makes me have to ask what the benefits are? I coach in our local semi pro league that follows NCAA rules and there are some differences that affect play. What happens when a team from Boston or Dallas shows up to play a team from Miami, for example in the Pop Warner National Championships? I have taken a handful of youth teams to the Youth Nationals in Vegas over the years and was restricted by unusual rules that had an adverse affect on our team. Thoughts? Coach Mike |
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Post by mahonz on Jan 11, 2009 0:00:22 GMT -6
Coach, We are involved in a league in the Philly suburbs and we have no weight limits and are surrounde by PW and other various weight leagues ( Bert Bell, KSL, CYO) in the area. We have no weight limits for ball carriers and tackle football starts at age 7, 5-6 is flag. WE have middle school football teams in our local schools so our tackle teams are grouped 7-8, 9-10, 11-12. In our first year many kids that have played for the other organizations have come to our league and we had a total of 170 plus kids playing tackle football. Next year we are expecting around 225 kids and having 3 full teams at each level. The parents and kids understand that we play "real football" compared to weight limit football. I had a coach of local PW team tell me his undefeated team of 9-10 year olds was easily the best team in Eastern PA. After watching one of his playoff games, which he won, I think we would of killed them. Also, every team in the area calls themselves the "premier" youth football team and have weight rules to protect the safety of the kids. I think this is directed at us as an attempt to scare people into playing in their league. If I were them I would be much more afraid of the older-lighter rule! We use federation rules and the organizations are free to run themselves within those rules and use the start date rules of the PIAA. Great thing is we do not start 8/1 like all the other youth teams, we start the second week in August and the parents love it! I see the future of football moving in this direction because I have had people from other organizations contact me to feel me out about trying to join our league. I also believe the future of youth sports is moving towards supporting the local school district and youth organizations will be developed to do this. If this occurs you can play all the teams in your league on the same weekend as the high school team plays them. Coach Thanks for the reply. Couple of things… Why do your parents appreciate the late start? Did you heavily market your program to get so many to defect? We have been working on this since June. The reception I get from the weight-capped leagues is exactly what you would imagine. The reality is if we move forward it will have to be a hostile takeover type thing. I too see the future of youth football moving in this direction...with a few twists. Coach Mike |
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Post by mahonz on Jan 11, 2009 0:18:28 GMT -6
Coach Mahonz, Starting here in August isn't an issue because of heat, we practice in the evenings and the weathers fine. Usually here, the weather stays hot until the end of Sept. anyway, so moving the start back a month wouldn't change anything weather wise. AZ sent several teams to Nationals this year, I think it would be an big issue not competing in Nationals. Having an unlimited division here for older boys, or anywhere for that matter, isn't a fix IMO because the problem starts at the lower levels and those bigger kids get turned away. Change needs to happen at the lower levels in order to retain the kids. I think there is too much of a spread in age and not enough spread in weight, the key factor with youth is age/maturity/experience, not size. For example, in most cases a 10yr old that has played 3 years of football is going to blow an newbie 8 year old up, even if the 8 year old is much bigger. This is going to discourage that 8yr old from continuing. These weight limits have been encourage by over protective mommies, IMO the danger is with the large gaps in age. I think a max. of 1 year age difference and a staggered weight scale makes more sense. For example: 8-9 max 120 grades 2-3 9-10 max 140 grades 3-4 10-11 max 160 grades 4-5 11-12 max 180 grades 5-6 12-13 max 200 grades 6-7 13-14 max 250 grades 7-8 Coach I lived in Phoenix for a spell and I agree the weathers fine in the evenings...IN JANUARY !! I agree with your observations and scenario. You would have to hook em young for sure. Probably my biggest concern about an unlimited weight league in a PW/ AYF heavy town like yours is the fact that the kids would be giving up a shot at a national title game. So here is my rational. What if you were able to create a league that included Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Colorado and New Mexico for example. Each state follows the same set of on the field rules and then plays a regional championship that costs virtually nothing to the parents except some time. If the format works then responsibly expand the idea to other regions. Then maybe in another 79 years there will be an unlimited weight national championship playoff system. Who knows? Coach Mike |
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Shotgun1
Sophomore Member
It is better to die trying than to quit...
Posts: 214
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Post by Shotgun1 on Jan 11, 2009 8:17:25 GMT -6
Why do your parents appreciate the late start?
Many of the coaches that helped set up the league are current high school coaches and we feel very strongly that young kids do not need to start before the high schools are allowed to start. We use PIAA rules and are not allowed to start practice before a certain date. ALso, many families take vacation the 1st/2nd week of August. Many parents that had kids play in the other leagues have really appreciated this later start date.
Did you heavily market your program to get so many to defect?
Our intent was to market the program to the kids in our school district. One of the league by-laws is that athletes must live within the boundaries of the school district. The school district will send home information sheets with students if we make the copies and it is approved by an administrator. We also held 3-4 town hall style meetings in which we went over a powerpoint that outlined our program and had a question/answer period. The town hall meetings were great and even had a few members of other leagues (PW) show up and ask questions about weight, injury, and competitiveness. WE provided copies of the Mayo clinic study about youth football injuries and discussed the facts that our kids were going to have properly designed practices that would work on developing football skills and the competitiveness would work itself out. It did as all our 7-10 year old teams were competitive while our 11-12 year olds struggled a little bit, due to lack of player exerience, but will develop.
Our intent was to never market to kids playing in other leagues. We marketed to our school district and the fact that it is a community program that has the same name as the local high school. If kids wanted to switch to our program that was great but we never once recruited them. In the end the kids that switched seemed to switch because so many of there friends that never played before were going to play for our league.
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