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Post by Sparkey on Apr 18, 2008 12:54:13 GMT -6
Here is the scenario on our varsity football staff. The following has been going on for nine season. One of our coaches shows up for practice from 45 minutes to one hour after practice starts every day. He receives the same pay as I do. It's been bothering me and another coach for sometime, but we haven't said anything. This coach isn't on the teaching staff. Only the head coach is on staff.
My question is.....what would you do about this situation?? Please give you input.
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Post by superpower on Apr 18, 2008 13:06:26 GMT -6
I would discuss it with the head coach.
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Post by jonnyboy on Apr 18, 2008 13:12:52 GMT -6
Maybe he is doing stuff in the off season to make up for it?
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Post by dhooper on Apr 18, 2008 13:25:17 GMT -6
Be straight with the head coach ask him. Ask him why maybe he has a good reason. It doesn't sound good.
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Post by spartan74 on Apr 18, 2008 13:51:33 GMT -6
i have a coach on staff, who is around 30 minutes late daily due to where he works. he has been on our staff for 7 years, there has been no problem with him being late, from anyof the coaches. However, he puts in a lot of time on the weekend to make up for it.
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Post by bj88smc on Apr 18, 2008 14:19:47 GMT -6
Approach the HC ASAP. Sounds like this could escalate into a staff dividing issue.
I'm not on staff. Due to my job, I'm typically 10-15 min. late and leave early to head back to work. I would never consider accepting equal pay. In fact, my HC has tried to give me money here or there in the past and I've refused because I don't put in as many hours as the rest off the staff.
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Post by cmow5 on Apr 18, 2008 14:27:38 GMT -6
should pay ever be based on knowledge?
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Post by brophy on Apr 18, 2008 14:31:45 GMT -6
why is it an issue?
The pay?
or missing practice?
If he misses practice and doesn't get paid, would you be alright with it?
Or are you willing to do less work to protest because you aren't compensated equally?
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Post by phantom on Apr 18, 2008 15:16:19 GMT -6
why is it an issue? The pay? or missing practice? If he misses practice and doesn't get paid, would you be alright with it? Or are you willing to do less work to protest because you aren't compensated equally? If the header is OK with it then it shouldn't be a problem. I'm sure that the HC knew what the situation would be when he hired the guy. |
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Post by highball007 on Apr 18, 2008 18:25:37 GMT -6
I have been in a similar situation the past two years, we have 3 coaches that are off campus coaches. Putting the money thing aside, the kids see that they are late all the time and then when they are late for practice one time they get punished. It sends a mixed signal to the athletes in my opinion. Dedicated players come from dedicated coaches. I could care less how much money the off campus coaches get (unless it was more then me of course). Unless there is a qualified coach on campus that is not be payed then it would be a problem. Also if the off campus coaches were to get their pay docked it is not like the other coaches would get it.
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Post by seagull73 on Apr 18, 2008 19:17:04 GMT -6
A guy has to feed his family! If he has a job that doesn't make it possible to get there on time so what. If he is a good coach & gets ther ASAP he is good with me. I have a few guys who are a little late but bust their a$$ to get there as fast as they can. As far as pay is concerned, stay out of peoples' bank accounts. Nothing good can come from it.
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Post by brophy on Apr 18, 2008 20:05:57 GMT -6
Aren't contracts for positions determined by the district? Head Coach stipend is $______
Assistant coach stipend is $______ A coach is a coach is a coach. Ultimately, it is the HC's problem. You can bring up the 'being late' thing and the message it sends, but everything else really sounds like back-biting resentment/jealousy. The fact that it's "gone on for nine seasons" would be a good sign that the HC really doesn't care.  This is why every company has an HR confidentiality policy when it comes to pay and compensation. Bill: "What? John gets paid HOW MUCH?....but...but...but....I make coffee every day and fax the TPS reports! John doesn't deserve......"Whatever you get paid to coach, I have to think it is nominal to the amount of hours that you put in. As a non-teacher, no matter what my stipend was, I always LOST money in the endeavor (because of the hours spent away from work)....so what is the point if I lose $5,000 or $500 in a season? No one is getting rich coaching football. The bottom line was, I wanted to coach. We used to have a guy that was a probation office for one of the middle schools. He would get to practice late a few days a week. He wasn't the most vocal guy.....but when he arrived, it was all good. Had other guys that were insurance adjusters, salesmen, etc.....had some challenging schedules. So long as we had who we had and we knew AHEAD of time....then we can get on with it. I think we equate monetary compensation to value to quickly. I think there was a parable in the bible about that....something about coveting your neighbor's goods or something. I'm not trying to take the high-road, but just pointing out that this is a small-time, petty issue. If you agreed to do the job for nothing, for $500, for $1200, for $4000,.....whatever, that's what you agreed to do your best at (regardless of what anyone else does). |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2008 20:12:19 GMT -6
This past season, I sub taught and worked a maintenace job on days I didn't sub. If I subbed, it was normally in the district, so I was at practice on time. If I was working the other job, I was there right as the whistle blew, if not a little late. Sometimes, stuff happened and I was quite late. There were no mixed messages because the kids understood I was working and had to put in so many hours. In response to a post above, if the kids are getting "mixed messages" maybe they need the situation explained to them.
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Post by coachplaa on Apr 18, 2008 20:40:43 GMT -6
Any coach that is concerned about what his pay will be is a coach that won't be with you for the long term.
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Post by Sparkey on Apr 18, 2008 20:53:43 GMT -6
I think there was a parable in the bible about that....something about coveting your neighbor's goods or something. I'm not trying to take the high-road, but just pointing out that this is a small-time, petty issue. ~Brophy
I think if you are full time coach and get paid as a full time coach, then you ought to be at practice full time! I wonder how the situation would work out in the business field. Ya, I'm sure they would let me come in late every day and no one would have an issue with it.....ya, right! Brophy, I thin I know you well enough to know you are playing "devil's advocate."
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Post by phantom on Apr 18, 2008 21:05:42 GMT -6
Funny you should mention parables. There's another one about a vineyard owner who hires one man in the morning, one late in the morning and one in the afternoon and all get paid the same. Like all parables, of course, it's meant to teach a lesson and not to be taken literally.
The HC must think that the guy is valuable. It's not necessary for that to be apparant to you.
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Post by khalfie on Apr 18, 2008 22:02:44 GMT -6
Never count another man's wallet...
Its not your business.
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Post by wildcat on Apr 19, 2008 3:46:28 GMT -6
Not to pile on, but I don't see an issue here. If the head coach is comfortable with the arrangement, IMO, that is really all that matters. Obviously, the head coach has something worked out with this coach.
And, as for a "double standard", I think that is a non issue, as well. The kids realize that, if practice starts at 3:30 but non-teacher Coach Jimmy Jack works until 4:00, he will be late to practice. It's not like the coach is late because he is malingering in the training room or flirting with Peggy Sue out in the parking lot...he has a good reason for being late. Heck, in our district, not all of the schools get out at the same time. We have a coach at our alternative high school and they don't get done until 3:15. At the high school, we are done at 2:35. What should we say to that coach? Should he get less of a stipend because he gets to practice 30-40 minutes after everyone else?
Used to coach with a guy who couldn't commit 100% to football...guy wasn't a teacher but was a heck of a football coach. He was also some kind of Vice President in Charge of Really Important & Expensive Stuff at the place where he worked and often couldn't be to practice on time and sometimes couldn't make it at all. Anyway, this guy had an agreement worked out with the head coach where he would make up the "missed" time on the weekends, breaking down film, doing stats, etc, etc.
In the end, it is usually a wash...think about teaching. How many of you guys who are teachers spend time during the school day screwing around on your prep period or reading and posting on sites like Coach Huey's or doing other "non teaching" stuff? And I would BET that those of you guys who DO use your prep periods for "non teaching" stuff also take work home with you to do at night like grading papers, making lesson plans, putting grades in the computer or even go in on the weekends to make copies and get ready for the week ahead.
Point is, it all evens out in the end one way or another.
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Post by coachjd on Apr 19, 2008 5:25:25 GMT -6
What pay?  by time you would figure out your hourly salary, does it really matter. If the head coach is ok with the arrangement and he is doing his job when he gets there, then to me there is no issue. IMO, it is not really the job of the assistant coaches to determine salary, job assignments, etc... |
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Post by brophy on Apr 19, 2008 5:50:27 GMT -6
I wonder how the situation would work out in the business field. lol - I just told you how it would work out. MOST companies have policies discouraging employees from discussing their compensation. It is illegal to punish employees for doing this (because it is the precursor to union-building), but it is discouraged because IT IS PETTY AND DIVISIVE (and does exactly what you are doing now). In the end, it is usually a wash...think about teaching. How many of you guys who are teachers spend time during the school day screwing around on your prep period or reading and posting on sites like Coach Huey's or doing other "non teaching" stuff? And I would BET that those of you guys who DO use your prep periods for "non teaching" stuff also take work home with you to do at night like grading papers, making lesson plans, putting grades in the computer or even go in on the weekends to make copies and get ready for the week ahead. Point is, it all evens out in the end one way or another. great point. Is the coaching stipend compensation for "hours worked" (if so, it comes out to $0.0034 /hr) or just a straight cost/wage. This guy is going to fill _____ job. If it takes him 40 hours or 4 hours to do it, the cost is still $_____. It is clear that your gripe is primarily about not getting paid more than the other guy. That is petty. Funny you should mention parables. There's another one about a vineyard owner who hires one man in the morning, one late in the morning and one in the afternoon and all get paid the same. . yeah - that is the parable I was referring to (I thought it was basic intention of covetting and judging the appreciation of others)
The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard or the Parable of the Laborers in the Vineyard (Parable of the Generous Employer) was given by Jesus in the New Testament (Matthew). In it Jesus says that any "laborer" who accepts the invitation to the Kingdom of Heaven, no matter how late in the day, will receive an equal reward with those who have been faithful the longest.If the DC spends 40 hours in the week preparing the game plan, what happens when he only spends 20 hours preparing? What happens to the assistants who spend 50 hours preparing drills? Should they get paid MORE? How does your district determine coaching salaries? By division of hours worked? If not, you don't have a leg to stand on in this issue. |
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Post by rideanddecide on Apr 19, 2008 6:16:33 GMT -6
Here's another aspect of things.
I am a head coach. My OC busts his tail all year and is fantastic. The other coaches (JV and Frosh) do what I ask of them. But, the OC as a varsity assistant ends up putting in more hours all the time. He gets the same check as the other guys. Why? Because our contract says the district will pay 5 assistant coaches and they all get X% of the base salary. There is nothing that can be done.
Point is, if this coach is worth having on staff as a paid position, maybe there is not other choice but to pay him the same as everyone else.
If you're concerned about pay listen to this one.
I was an assistant track coach when I was a defensive coordinator. During that time I made more money to pick my butt coaching throwers than I did busting my hump breaking down film and coaching football. It's all about the negotiated teacher contract.
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Post by coachwarner on Apr 19, 2008 11:55:46 GMT -6
Here is the scenario on our varsity football staff. The following has been going on for nine season. One of our coaches shows up for practice from 45 minutes to one hour after practice starts every day. He receives the same pay as I do. It's been bothering me and another coach for sometime, but we haven't said anything. This coach isn't on the teaching staff. Only the head coach is on staff. My question is.....what would you do about this situation?? Please give you input. Coach, i dont understand. This scenario has been going on for nine years, its been bothering you and another coach for sometime , but you havent said anything? Holy *^% Time for one of those double top secret meetings were all the coaching staff gets together and discusses their thoughts. Make it a total team effort, beer optional.  If the same coach shows up 45 minutes for a double top secret meeting make him pay the tab. Seriously, you need your coaching staffs opinion or input, not mine |
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Post by coachbw on Apr 19, 2008 12:26:45 GMT -6
To me it all comes down to one question "Are the coaching contracts included in the CBA agreed on by the teaching union?"
If they are, the head coach has no say in what people are paid anyways and his only other option would be to let the coach go completely.
If they are not, you and the head coach obviously have a philosophical difference in how people should be compensated (which is a battle you can not win).
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Post by coachgreen05 on Apr 19, 2008 12:37:33 GMT -6
I dont care what any coach makes. I dont coach for the stipend(dont get one anyway) nor the extra pay.
Dont care when he gets there. I hope hes not a coordinator.I just love the extra help,especially if u need it
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Post by phantom on Apr 19, 2008 17:45:00 GMT -6
Here's another aspect of things. I am a head coach. My OC busts his tail all year and is fantastic. The other coaches (JV and Frosh) do what I ask of them. But, the OC as a varsity assistant ends up putting in more hours all the time. He gets the same check as the other guys. Why? Because our contract says the district will pay 5 assistant coaches and they all get X% of the base salary. There is nothing that can be done. Point is, if this coach is worth having on staff as a paid position, maybe there is not other choice but to pay him the same as everyone else. If you're concerned about pay listen to this one. I was an assistant track coach when I was a defensive coordinator. During that time I made more money to pick my butt coaching throwers than I did busting my hump breaking down film and coaching football. It's all about the negotiated teacher contract. At our place it's not even e percentage, just a flat stipend. We all get paid exactly the same. I'm the DC. That means that I spend a lot of time on weekends putting together a game plan and a lot of extra time during the week drawing scout cards and writing scripts and practice schedules. Our DL coach, for one, spends zero time doing extra stuff. Doesn't bother me a bit. No reason that he should. We get paid the same and have for about 15 years. Why should I worry about it? It's not my problem. I have enough problems of my own without creating others. |
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Post by fbdoc on Apr 19, 2008 17:58:32 GMT -6
Coaches - GREAT use of parables!
Sparkey - if you're in this for the money you're in the wrong profession. Stipends were never meant to be a "salary" and I tell my coaches to never refer to their coaching salary. They are simply "Thank You's" at the end of the season for volunteering MANY hours to help kids become men. The district or school sets the stipend and their is little any HC can do. We are a private school and I have a little flexibility with the stipends for our walkon/part time coaches but I rarely mess with it. Sometimes I'll try and get our coordinators or our head JV coach a little bit more because they DO spend more time than a part timer but I'm looking for guys who want to coach regardless of whether its for a crummy $1500 stipend or jsut because the WANT to coach. If you truly want/need more money then prove you are worth it and go out and get a head coaching job.
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Post by brophy on Apr 19, 2008 19:20:54 GMT -6
so.....uh....Sparkey, how much money we talking here?
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trojan
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Post by trojan on Apr 19, 2008 21:01:05 GMT -6
I read 80% of the text on this page. So many seem focused on the mention of pay. My impression is that two guys have the same job, and one doesn't seem to be doing it.
Can a "great" teacher leave at noon if the principal is okay with it? According to many comments here: YES.
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Post by brophy on Apr 19, 2008 21:06:43 GMT -6
I read 80% of the text on this page. So many seem focused on the mention of pay. My impression is that two guys have the same job, and one doesn't seem to be doing it. Can a "great" teacher leave at noon if the principal is okay with it? According to many comments here: YES. you might wanna read the entire thread, then. the author's main stink is the pay. If an assistant hasn't been a 'problem' with this schedule for the past 9 years, what is causing the dissention now? The only gripe listed thus far has been the pay and the probable impression it may have on the players. Some other coaches have offered their experiences in offering feedback for the former issue. The author hasn't brought up any issues where duties are not getting done due to this schedule, but continues to bring up the equal monetary compensation. It would appear that is where the gripe is at (and the 4 pms and 2 emails he has sent me with an irrate tantrum about the pay).  This is an issue that begins and ENDS with the Head Coach. If you're coaching for the pay, get a part-time job instead. |
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trojan
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Post by trojan on Apr 19, 2008 21:14:22 GMT -6
"One of our coaches shows up for practice from 45 minutes to one hour after practice starts every day. He receives the same pay as I do."
First thing he mentions is that the guy is 45 minutes to an hour late each day. That is a gripe.
Then comes the pay.
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by time you would figure out your hourly salary, does it really matter. If the head coach is ok with the arrangement and he is doing his job when he gets there, then to me there is no issue. IMO, it is not really the job of the assistant coaches to determine salary, job assignments, etc...
