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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 23, 2008 21:08:01 GMT -6
I guess that kinda makes sense Dave.....but wouldn't the defensive talent/execution also get better and counteract the scoring that way?...... No, because in most sports, the games are designed that sloppy or unskilled play favors the defense. I think this is one of the reasons that the dbl wing, single wing, misdirection type offenses excel at those levels. They all focus on skills that MORE people have (any kid can fake, any kid can shield another kid from a gap etc. ) As skill levels increase, the defense loses this "edge"
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Post by los on Jun 23, 2008 21:53:55 GMT -6
You might have something there coach D?.....I just figured most youth teams scored a bunch of points, cause the kids playing "defense".... don't tackle well......don't really know their assignments.....especially on a pass play.....or were overmatched athletically(not much you can do about the 3rd reason, but you can definitely fix the 1st two).....while I do see the merit in running the offensive schemes you mentioned.....what I'm getting at is.....if this "same attention to detail" is applied to playing defense, with "equal talent".....it's still gonna be tough to score.....not to mention....."running up the score", lol....course, good defense and low scoring games aren't very exciting to some, lol
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Post by davecisar on Jun 24, 2008 5:07:26 GMT -6
Los, Have yet to see any 4-6 team leagues play very competitive ball. Been my experience and watching lots of DVDs sent to me, the biggest leagues are the most competitive. YOu have to be in order to compete with the wide variety of offenses, defenses and talent you see. Those that play 6 game seasons vs 3 different opponents just wont be as competitive as those that play 12 games and play 12 different teams, 12 different offenses/defenses/coaching staffs. I ran an in-house league of 4 teams, those games were pale in comparison to our league games in a 52 team league, no comparison. At the High School, College and youth levels, even in draft leagues where all talent should be equal, there are differences in talent. Execution means scoring. Around here the youngest rookie level games are 12-6, 18-12, 8-6 etc. because of poor execution, not talent equality. The Omaha Public School Junior High leagues games are always 6-0, 8-6 etc, the "championship game" was 12-0. Why? Becuase they play thier forst game 2 weeks after their first practice and they only play 4 games in the entire season, execution. That's why none of the better players in the area play in that league. Once you get past the first year and the dad/rookie coach level you see lots more scoring and much better execution. The level of play varies quite a bit from league to league. Thats why even at the big Regional and National tournaments like the ones weve played in you see big blowouts even amoungst undefeated league champions. It's not all equal. Weve played huge undefeated City "select" teams that choose from 150+ kids with our group of whoever shows up average country kids and still scored a ton of points (35+). In youth football the team with the best talent doesnt always win, execution is king. Traveling becuase you have to because you are in a sparsly populated area or because that is where the teams in your small league are located is much different than playing in a league that has lots of local teams to play, more than enough to fill out an 11 game schedule with a different team each week and CHOOSing to travel out of state or area to play teams in other leagues. Much different deal, have to travel vs wanting to travel
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Post by davecisar on Jun 24, 2008 6:01:09 GMT -6
Some evidence to back that up: www.evwfootball.com/scores2.htmlThe Pee Wees are age 8-9 Junior Midgets 10-11 Midgets 12-13 Note the differences in points scored and differences in scores. In last 4 games the Pee Wee teams had just 3 teams score over 30 points, whereas the Junior Midgets had 17 games where they scored 30 or more. Same 10 minute quarters and same mercy rule in effect ( when up by 21 running clock) In the midgets games 30% of the teams scored 30 or more points etc. The differences are even greater if you look at the first 4 weeks. The Pee Wee Kids scored just 30 points 1 time, in contrast the Junior Pee Wees scored 30 or more, more than 20 times.
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Post by los on Jun 24, 2008 7:39:13 GMT -6
I certainly believe there are youth teams that can score ton's of points...."occassionally".....seen it with my own eyes, lol...no proof necessary.....just didn't happen "that often" here......at least not enough to worry about a "running up the score" policy.....Why?.....my guess is "parity" and "familiarity" among the teams in our league.....this includes coaching, athletes, number of players per team, scheme's we all ran, etc......While I do agree, that the introduction of a different offensive system, such as the single/dbl. wing....spread...etc....might give that team a "temporary advantage", perhaps creating some lopsided games, eventually, as the "familiarity" thing kicks in....."parity" would return, provided the player talent was equal......I've seen a lot of youth video, Dave......yours....and many others......and always make a point to watch the pop warner playoffs on tv....while some of the offense's execute very well and have admirable schemes......a lot of the defensive play (in these same video's) "honestly", leaves a lot to be desired.....very poor tackling.....kids standing around after the snap, without a clue.....plus...."some" obvious talent disparity? Just my observation though, lol. So yeah......I guess we could agree on this.....you put an organized offensive team, with good athletes against a defense of similar type kids, who don't know their job and don't tackle well......uhhhh....its gonna be big play city, all day long,lol..... with blowout games the norm and "running up the score", a real possibility......on the other hand......if "both" teams are organized and execute well, offensively and defensively......the "time constraints" in youth ball, of having to make prolonged, mistake free drives, in order to score, usually makes for a "low scoring"....."close game".....and I'll stick with that, reguardless of where you play, lol!
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Post by davecisar on Jun 24, 2008 8:24:48 GMT -6
I guess it depends on where you coach as to your experience. The league we play in has seen my offense for 5 seasons now and many of the guys have tape or even own the books and DVDs LOL. It hasnt made much of a difference, scorign average has fluctuated by 1-2 points most years at about 35 ppg. They all film, scout and compare notes here. In last league we were in the opposing team erected scaffolding every game to get the best angles for their film crew. Some teams have league fees of $150-$1000+ to play, team buses, 10,000 seat stadiums etc. So yes maybe compared to a $25 fee they may put a bit more into it. Not right or wrong, but probably a bit of a different emphasis than a league with Thursday evening game played on a rec field etc. As to teams getting "caught off-guard" with passes, I think weve thrown just 41 TD passes in last 8 seasons. so thats not it. Size? Not more than 1 "striped" player in most seasons often playing teams with 6-8 striped players, that cant be it. Talent? Played inner city teams that choose from 150+ kids etc. won "super bowl and state title in 2005 with a 4th team "QB" #80 starting the championship game to beat a team that had not lost in 5 seasons. Cluelessness even happens at the high school level with very good and well executed misdirection offenses. It's all about execution, even at the Regional and National tournaments playing the best teams in the country, it hasnt mattered. Go to the tournaments in person you will see 'dandelion" picker league teams getting blown out by much better competitive and better coached teams. Non weekend rec level 4 team leagues are much different than what most of us play in and Im sure has a lot to do with your opinions. If you havent coached in years or havent coached in a large competitive league in person or been to a big tournament and seen all the teams from everywhere playing in person and see the huge differences, really hard to understand. Over my 15 years of youth coaching, the low scoring games ALWAYS happen at the youngest levels every season. Why? because they are the poorest coached teams and they execute the worst. The scores I poste showed that. In our neck of the woods there are several leagues and one is MUCH better than the other. In Omaha, When the 3rd place team from league A plays the 1st place team from League B, the 3rd place team always wins it, often by huge margins. The League B scores week to week are always 12-6, 6-0, 8-6 etc very poor offensive execution. Not a one year deal has been the same for all the years Ive been around, now League B wont even play or scrimmage any tems from League A. Same goes for the local area, one league wont even scrimmage let alone play any team from our league, the level of competition is just worlds apart. Example; a very average player of ours left to play in this league, kid was nothing special, started at FB for us, scored 3-4 TDs for us, payed attention, followed directions etc. In the other league he is MVP, leading scorer and tackler on his team. In our league there were 5-6 kids on each team better than him etc. In 15 years of coaching in 5 very different leagues and going to unlimited national tournaments has brought me to these conclusions not to metntion the team clinics Ive done for teams in 12 states and the 40+ coaches clinics Ive done in all areas of the country and the 100s of game DVDs guys have sent me to evaluate. But what do I know, my sample size is so small
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CoachJ
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Post by CoachJ on Jun 24, 2008 9:41:20 GMT -6
Over my 15 years of youth coaching, the low scoring games ALWAYS happen at the youngest levels every season. Why? because they are the poorest coached teams and they execute the worst. The scores I poste showed that. In our neck of the woods there are several leagues and one is MUCH better than the other. In Omaha, When the 3rd place team from league A plays the 1st place team from League B, the 3rd place team always wins it, often by huge margins. The League B scores week to week are always 12-6, 6-0, 8-6 etc very poor offensive execution. Not a one year deal has been the same for all the years Ive been around, now League B wont even play or scrimmage any tems from League A. Same goes for the local area, one league wont even scrimmage let alone play any team from our league, the level of competition is just worlds apart. Example; a very average player of ours left to play in this league, kid was nothing special, started at FB for us, scored 3-4 TDs for us, payed attention, followed directions etc. In the other league he is MVP, leading scorer and tackler on his team. In our league there were 5-6 kids on each team better than him etc. In 15 years of coaching in 5 very different leagues and going to unlimited national tournaments has brought me to these conclusions not to metntion the team clinics Ive done for teams in 12 states and the 40+ coaches clinics Ive done in all areas of the country and the 100s of game DVDs guys have sent me to evaluate. But what do I know, my sample size is so small I agree with you. The best team in a rural league close to our area came into our league one year with a lot of confidence that they would win our league. They left with a 4-4 record have yet to reapply for our league. I talked to a couple of their coaches, real nice guys, and they told they were just surprised at how much different their league is than ours. I think they went back and won their league again this past year.
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Post by davecisar on Jun 24, 2008 9:53:34 GMT -6
Yep the EVW Rebels won your League a Bunch of Times includeing 2 of the last 3 years they were in and coming close several times during my tenure there, beating Scotts and your teams a number of times before starting, not moving back to their own league, there was no back and forth. As a voting member of Both leagues ( one since 1998), I was there. Once Jim Crouch quit coaching that team, they decided they wanted to form their own league and play other non-select teams on a more level playing field. This shows this team went 5-3 their last season in the league and actually won the league the 2 previous years. You may have your wires a bit crossed up. www.heartlandfootball.com/ You are mistaken, the EVW Rebels have never won the EVW league they started, BUT they won the Heartland a bunch of times. Blair won the EVW Title at that age group last year which was the VERY FIRST year of this age group ever playing in this league , 2007 We added the older kids last year for the very first time. My personal teams have soundly beaten the Heartland "A" and Papio Champions in the same year as well as when in the Heartland won championships at both A and B etc. You havent been around long enough to know the history etc.
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CoachJ
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Post by CoachJ on Jun 24, 2008 10:34:33 GMT -6
Yep the EVW Rebels won that League a Bunch of Times, beating Scotts teams a number of times before starting, not moving back to their own league, there was no back and forth. As a voting member of Both leagues ( one since 1998), I was there. Once Jim Crouch quit coaching that team in 2006 they decided they wanted to form their own league and play other non-select teams on a more level playing field. This shows this team went 5-3 their last season in the league and actually won the league the 2 previous years. You may have your wires a bit crossed up. www.heartlandfootball.com/ You are mistaken, the EVW Rebels have never won the EVW league they started, BUT they won the Heartland a bunch of times with Crouch at the helm. Blair won the EVW Title at that age group which was the VERY FIRST year of this age group ever playing in this league , 2007 We added the older kids last year for the very first time. My personal teams have soundly beaten the Heartland "A" and Papio Champions in the same year as well as when in the Heartland won championships at both A and B etc. You havent been around long enough to know the history etc. I wasn't speaking of EVW. I am very familiar with them. I was talking about Blair. They played in the Heartland in 2006 and went 4-4. They came in very confident after doing very well in the EVW league. This season they went back to EVW and won the oldest age group, going undefeated. I talked to their coaches at a social function. Nice group of guys that were surprised by the competitveness of the Heartland league. Their record in the Heartland can be found here: www.heartlandfootball.com/2006Standings.htmAlso as we saw by your link, they went back and won the EVW league this year. I can see where you would be confused because Blair only played in the Heartland that one season. You are correct though Elkorn and your teams had success in the Heartland.
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Post by los on Jun 24, 2008 10:37:14 GMT -6
Dave.....lol.....playing on Thursday afternoons/evenings is a tradition in these parts, for the school sub varsity teams....thats 7th/8th grade and "B" teams....we also played then, to make use of the officials, that were already on hand, for their games.....so don't read too much into this, when determining the caliber of play, lol.....good thing about it.....we were off from fri. thru sunday, which was great. I understand there are some large organizations, with hundreds of teams in each league, this in itself limits the "familiarity" factor, when two teams play each other..... coaching ability would fall under the "parity" category.....no doubt, with your experience.....this would give your team a "coaching advantage".... add to that, an uncommon offensive system(that requires some "educated study" to defend properly and "decent" execution, by the kid defenders, to slow it down)..... then only seeing it, maybe one game a year(lack of familiarity).....I can see how these factors would be a good recipe for high scoring games,lol.....So..... in the games you all lost.....what happened? Were they still high scoring games or a defensive slug fest, lol?
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Post by mahonz on Jun 24, 2008 11:13:32 GMT -6
Los, Have yet to see any 4-6 team leagues play very competitive ball. Been my experience and watching lots of DVDs sent to me, the biggest leagues are the most competitive. YOu have to be in order to compete with the wide variety of offenses, defenses and talent you see. Those that play 6 game seasons vs 3 different opponents just wont be as competitive as those that play 12 games and play 12 different teams, 12 different offenses/defenses/coaching staffs. I ran an in-house league of 4 teams, those games were pale in comparison to our league games in a 52 team league, no comparison. At the High School, College and youth levels, even in draft leagues where all talent should be equal, there are differences in talent. Execution means scoring. Around here the youngest rookie level games are 12-6, 18-12, 8-6 etc. because of poor execution, not talent equality. The Omaha Public School Junior High leagues games are always 6-0, 8-6 etc, the "championship game" was 12-0. Why? Becuase they play thier forst game 2 weeks after their first practice and they only play 4 games in the entire season, execution. That's why none of the better players in the area play in that league. Once you get past the first year and the dad/rookie coach level you see lots more scoring and much better execution. The level of play varies quite a bit from league to league. Thats why even at the big Regional and National tournaments like the ones weve played in you see big blowouts even amoungst undefeated league champions. It's not all equal. Weve played huge undefeated City "select" teams that choose from 150+ kids with our group of whoever shows up average country kids and still scored a ton of points (35+). In youth football the team with the best talent doesnt always win, execution is king. Traveling becuase you have to because you are in a sparsly populated area or because that is where the teams in your small league are located is much different than playing in a league that has lots of local teams to play, more than enough to fill out an 11 game schedule with a different team each week and CHOOSing to travel out of state or area to play teams in other leagues. Much different deal, have to travel vs wanting to travel Dave I agree. Our league is gobbeling up all of the smaller leagues because the smaller leagues want more competition. We will hit 300 total teams next season. What I dont like about it is that rivalries really dont exist....and forget parity...probably due to the lack of familiarity. I do remember one game in particular at the Youth Nationals though. We played a rual team from Utah that kicked our butts. I was convinced they practiced against cattle. Coach Mike
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Post by davecisar on Jun 24, 2008 11:24:04 GMT -6
Yep the EVW Rebels won that League a Bunch of Times, beating Scotts teams a number of times before starting, not moving back to their own league, there was no back and forth. As a voting member of Both leagues ( one since 1998), I was there. Once Jim Crouch quit coaching that team in 2006 they decided they wanted to form their own league and play other non-select teams on a more level playing field. This shows this team went 5-3 their last season in the league and actually won the league the 2 previous years. You may have your wires a bit crossed up. www.heartlandfootball.com/ You are mistaken, the EVW Rebels have never won the EVW league they started, BUT they won the Heartland a bunch of times with Crouch at the helm. Blair won the EVW Title at that age group which was the VERY FIRST year of this age group ever playing in this league , 2007 We added the older kids last year for the very first time. My personal teams have soundly beaten the Heartland "A" and Papio Champions in the same year as well as when in the Heartland won championships at both A and B etc. You havent been around long enough to know the history etc. I wasn't speaking of EVW. I am very familiar with them. I was talking about Blair. They played in the Heartland in 2006 and went 4-4. They came in very confident after doing very well in the EVW league. This season they went back to EVW and won the oldest age group, going undefeated. I talked to their coaches at a social function. Nice group of guys that were surprised by the competitveness of the Heartland league. Their record in the Heartland can be found here: www.heartlandfootball.com/2006Standings.htmAlso as we saw by your link, they went back and won the EVW league this year. I can see where you would be confused because Blair only played in the Heartland that one season. You are correct though Elkorn and your teams had success in the Heartland. That EVW team that won the Heartland in 2004, 2005 and other years is in the EVW. How Blair was confident is beyond me, it would have been a first year program as the EVW has never had older kids until 2007. They probably had never even seen a 13-14 year old game before that season. We always play a Heartland team or 2 and have never lost to one, we have never lost to a Papio League team either, although getting any of them to play is a real challenge. In 2005 my first year in the EVW we beat Blair in the title game by 30+ points, We had them mercy ruled in the first half, starting our 4th team QB (3rd teameer pulled his groin at the Hotel swimming party the night before). They hadnt lost in 5 years so I guess they have a habit of winning. In 2006 no Blair teams won a title, but 2 did last year. So they probably arent invicible. Not in our division so we only see them in the playoffs.
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Post by davecisar on Jun 24, 2008 11:25:21 GMT -6
Los, Have yet to see any 4-6 team leagues play very competitive ball. Been my experience and watching lots of DVDs sent to me, the biggest leagues are the most competitive. YOu have to be in order to compete with the wide variety of offenses, defenses and talent you see. Those that play 6 game seasons vs 3 different opponents just wont be as competitive as those that play 12 games and play 12 different teams, 12 different offenses/defenses/coaching staffs. I ran an in-house league of 4 teams, those games were pale in comparison to our league games in a 52 team league, no comparison. At the High School, College and youth levels, even in draft leagues where all talent should be equal, there are differences in talent. Execution means scoring. Around here the youngest rookie level games are 12-6, 18-12, 8-6 etc. because of poor execution, not talent equality. The Omaha Public School Junior High leagues games are always 6-0, 8-6 etc, the "championship game" was 12-0. Why? Becuase they play thier forst game 2 weeks after their first practice and they only play 4 games in the entire season, execution. That's why none of the better players in the area play in that league. Once you get past the first year and the dad/rookie coach level you see lots more scoring and much better execution. The level of play varies quite a bit from league to league. Thats why even at the big Regional and National tournaments like the ones weve played in you see big blowouts even amoungst undefeated league champions. It's not all equal. Weve played huge undefeated City "select" teams that choose from 150+ kids with our group of whoever shows up average country kids and still scored a ton of points (35+). In youth football the team with the best talent doesnt always win, execution is king. Traveling becuase you have to because you are in a sparsly populated area or because that is where the teams in your small league are located is much different than playing in a league that has lots of local teams to play, more than enough to fill out an 11 game schedule with a different team each week and CHOOSing to travel out of state or area to play teams in other leagues. Much different deal, have to travel vs wanting to travel Dave I agree. Our league is gobbeling up all of the smaller leagues because the smaller leagues want more competition. We will hit 300 total teams next season. What I dont like about it is that rivalries really dont exist....and forget parity...probably due to the lack of familiarity. I do remember one game in particular at the Youth Nationals though. We played a rual team from Utah that kicked our butts. I was convinced they practiced against cattle. Coach Mike Mike, Get them to play in divisions like we do, that way you keep the relationships and rivalries until playoff time. DC
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Post by davecisar on Jun 24, 2008 11:26:13 GMT -6
Dave.....lol.....playing on Thursday afternoons/evenings is a tradition in these parts, for the school sub varsity teams....thats 7th/8th grade and "B" teams....we also played then, to make use of the officials, that were already on hand, for their games.....so don't read too much into this, when determining the caliber of play, lol.....good thing about it.....we were off from fri. thru sunday, which was great. I understand there are some large organizations, with hundreds of teams in each league, this in itself limits the "familiarity" factor, when two teams play each other..... coaching ability would fall under the "parity" category.....no doubt, with your experience.....this would give your team a "coaching advantage".... add to that, an uncommon offensive system(that requires some "educated study" to defend properly and "decent" execution, by the kid defenders, to slow it down)..... then only seeing it, maybe one game a year(lack of familiarity).....I can see how these factors would be a good recipe for high scoring games,lol.....So..... in the games you all lost.....what happened? Were they still high scoring games or a defensive slug fest, lol? When you play in large leagues like most of us do LOS, what they do is put you in divisions, then you do playoffs at the end. The same teams are usually in your same division year in and year out for geographic and rivalry reasons.. The coaches Ive coached against not only have played my teams many times, they have plenty of film and many have my book and DVDs. One even came up last year after our game and said " Dave I love your DVDs my wife got me them for Christmas". A bunch of them I expect will be at my July 12th clinc at the local Community College, so lack of familiarity, I seriosuly doubt it . The 5 games we lost in last 8 seasons had a few things in common, but a few bad breaks, called back TDs, max slowdown, poor coaching, oppsosing offense not going 3 and out-getting a 1st down or 2 every drive and lack of execution/experience on our part ( 2 lost on TDs where DT and LB mistakenly went to same gap and offense ran next gap over for TD, "execution") resulted in 4 of those losses by a TD or less.
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Post by davecisar on Jun 24, 2008 13:02:18 GMT -6
Yep the EVW Rebels won that League a Bunch of Times, beating Scotts teams a number of times before starting, not moving back to their own league, there was no back and forth. As a voting member of Both leagues ( one since 1998), I was there. Once Jim Crouch quit coaching that team in 2006 they decided they wanted to form their own league and play other non-select teams on a more level playing field. This shows this team went 5-3 their last season in the league and actually won the league the 2 previous years. You may have your wires a bit crossed up. www.heartlandfootball.com/ You are mistaken, the EVW Rebels have never won the EVW league they started, BUT they won the Heartland a bunch of times with Crouch at the helm. Blair won the EVW Title at that age group which was the VERY FIRST year of this age group ever playing in this league , 2007 We added the older kids last year for the very first time. My personal teams have soundly beaten the Heartland "A" and Papio Champions in the same year as well as when in the Heartland won championships at both A and B etc. You havent been around long enough to know the history etc. I wasn't speaking of EVW. I am very familiar with them. I was talking about Blair. They played in the Heartland in 2006 and went 4-4. They came in very confident after doing very well in the EVW league. This season they went back to EVW and won the oldest age group, going undefeated. I talked to their coaches at a social function. Nice group of guys that were surprised by the competitveness of the Heartland league. Their record in the Heartland can be found here: www.heartlandfootball.com/2006Standings.htmAlso as we saw by your link, they went back and won the EVW league this year. I can see where you would be confused because Blair only played in the Heartland that one season. You are correct though Elkorn and your teams had success in the Heartland. Of course that team "Blair" wouldnt come back to that league. In 2007 the league they have played in for over 10 years added the older age group. So now the older kids from Blair play right after at the same field as their youngert brothers do, making it much easier on the parents. And instead of having to travel 25-45 miles for every away game, they are in a league were the games are MUCH closer distance wise. Im sure those factors had a lot more to do with their league affiliation than a 4-4 season.
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Post by davecisar on Jun 24, 2008 14:48:09 GMT -6
Dave.....lol.....playing on Thursday afternoons/evenings is a tradition in these parts, for the school sub varsity teams....thats 7th/8th grade and "B" teams....we also played then, to make use of the officials, that were already on hand, for their games.....so don't read too much into this, when determining the caliber of play, lol.....good thing about it.....we were off from fri. thru sunday, which was great. I understand there are some large organizations, with hundreds of teams in each league, this in itself limits the "familiarity" factor, when two teams play each other..... coaching ability would fall under the "parity" category.....no doubt, with your experience.....this would give your team a "coaching advantage".... add to that, an uncommon offensive system(that requires some "educated study" to defend properly and "decent" execution, by the kid defenders, to slow it down)..... then only seeing it, maybe one game a year(lack of familiarity).....I can see how these factors would be a good recipe for high scoring games,lol.....So..... in the games you all lost.....what happened? Were they still high scoring games or a defensive slug fest, lol? Most anywhere in the country they play sub varsity games in Thursday, they do it here too. The only leagues around here that play on Thursdays is the every game ends in a tie YMCA Rec league. There are so many games to be played and so many relatives to come see games that no way can you do it on Thursdays. We now have 3 teams, they cant all play on Thursday night and in Omaha I had 12 teams, no way they all play on Thursdays and get good crowds etc. Most of our teams play on High School and College Fields, they arent available on Thursday nights. Football is just bigger in some places than it is in others.
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CoachJ
Junior Member
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Post by CoachJ on Jun 24, 2008 14:53:01 GMT -6
Of course that team "Blair" wouldnt come back to that league. In 2007 the league they have played in for over 10 years added the older age group. So now the older kids from Blair play right after at the same field as their youngert brothers do, making it much easier on the parents. And instead of having to travel 25-45 miles for every away game, they are in a league were the games are MUCH closer distance wise. Im sure those factors had a lot more to do with their league affiliation than a 4-4 season. Double Post
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CoachJ
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Post by CoachJ on Jun 24, 2008 14:55:39 GMT -6
Of course that team "Blair" wouldnt come back to that league. In 2007 the league they have played in for over 10 years added the older age group. So now the older kids from Blair play right after at the same field as their youngert brothers do, making it much easier on the parents. And instead of having to travel 25-45 miles for every away game, they are in a league were the games are MUCH closer distance wise. Im sure those factors had a lot more to do with their league affiliation than a 4-4 season. I don't care about Blair's reasons. They can do what they want. Since you have played in both leagues, is it your contention that EVW is stronger? I would be interested know because I have never seen an EVW game. I have seen the both the Rebels (in good and bad seasons) and I have seen Blair. I would think both were quality teams, is that the average for your league, or are they better/worse than most?
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Post by davecisar on Jun 24, 2008 14:56:19 GMT -6
J, Ok, Your post specificly implied they didnt want to come back because of competition levels. ((I agree with you. The best team in a rural league close to our area came into our league one year with a lot of confidence that they would win our league. They left with a 4-4 record have yet to reapply for our league. I talked to a couple of their coaches, real nice guys, and they told they were just surprised at how much different their league is than ours. I think they went back and won their league again this past year. )) That certainly wasnt the case. per a team from that same rural league winning your league league title at 13-14 for 2-3 of the last years they were in
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CoachJ
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Post by CoachJ on Jun 24, 2008 15:09:34 GMT -6
J, Ok, Your post specificly implied they didnt want to come back because of competition levels. ((I agree with you. The best team in a rural league close to our area came into our league one year with a lot of confidence that they would win our league. They left with a 4-4 record have yet to reapply for our league. I talked to a couple of their coaches, real nice guys, and they told they were just surprised at how much different their league is than ours. I think they went back and won their league again this past year. )) That certainly wasnt the case. per a team from that same rural league winning your league league title at 13-14 for 2-3 of the last years they were in Dave, Like I said though, I have NEVER seen a game in your league and you would be more qualified to compare the two. So let me know what you think. Elkhorn did win 2 of the last 3 years they played, but the last year they played, they weren't as good as they had been. They lost games 43-6, 48-12, and 32-8 that year before they left. Their numbers were way down and they didn't have the junior QB from Millard South who led the state in passing (as a sophomore) last season anymore.
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Post by davecisar on Jun 24, 2008 15:15:05 GMT -6
Your previous post before you altered it said you didnt want to talk about it LOL. EVW had competed well in that league for years. We always could count on them being a worthy opponent. You have to remember when you are from a rural area your numbers are not consistent, they vary quite a bit from the big city teams and of course from any of the select teams. Where we are at the closest town has about 1400 residents total, a one gas station town. Elkhorn is a bit larger but lots smaller than Millard or Omaha.
I dont remember the Rebels having a bad year since you have been around. The last year Coach Crouch was no longer there as well as his OC< they coached elsewhere and now coach their kids at the younger age groups. He is a very good coach and coaching matters. My guess is like many of the rural teams at the older age groups they have to really beat the bushes for players as they compete for players from the long established Jr High programs. vs the long established club teams in Millard and Omaha competing for kids vs the new upstart Jr High teams, a different equation. The Millard and Omaha Jr High football is looked at as rec level where the long established rural Jr High teams are looked at as establihsed "school teams", a much different deal.
Again Blair was a first year 13-14 team with coaches that had never coached at that level. Remember your first year in the league, losing record etc. They arent in our division so Ive only seen them play when we played in the Title games.
When in Heartland we always played the EVW teams in extra games before, during ( their bye weeks we always played) and after the season and their top 1/2 tier teams always competed well and were great sports. Long standing positive personal relationships with the Gretna, Valley, Arlington and Elkhorn teams allowed us to play a ton of extra games for fun. They were competitive even in the years we won all the league titles at all the age groups before I left after the 2004 season. We played lots of extra games vs quite a few of the other leagues like EVW, CB etc back then Could never get the KWAA teams to play though, not even against B teams etc.
The leagues vary from year to year in 2005 my rural age 8-10 team blew out the Heartland league Champions and we were not A-B we didnt get to choose kids or send to B like those there. We also mercy ruled the league winners of the Papio league that year.
The teams in this league dont have the size of the Heartland teams as Select A_B is forbidden. If you have enough for multiple teams you have to draft etc. So not the same equation, but for the younger kids where size isnt that big a deal yet, sure they compete real well.
The age groups are now 7-9, 10-11 and 12-13 so a bit of a different deal, a bit difficult to make comparisons since the ages are off by a year now.
There isnt a single team in EVW that I know of with 200 lb kids accross the line like I often saw In Heartland when I coached there. I have yet to watch an age 12-13 game but I did see the kids weigh in and they were SMALL.
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